hobgoblin Resilience

[JGulick]

Hobgoblin: Can do his stuff and when his fist save failed or he needs to make two saves, he can make another save.. If the effect is ignored after the first save, the hobgoblin doesnt need to make an save now..

There is no rules support that I can see for the idea that the Hobgoblin gets to make two saves against a single effect at any point in time.

The Hobgoblin's power is an Immediate Reaction to suffering the effect. Thus, the single save against the single triggering effect that it provides is taken right then. If it succeeds, the effect ends. If it fails, by RAW, the effect either endures or progresses (depending on the effect).

And as this is an Encounter Power, it has its one effect and then is gone until the unlikely event of the monster getting a Short Rest. It has no lasting power to in any way impact the end of the Hobgoblin's next turn, when the Hobgoblin will (in most cases) get another save should the first save have failed.

 

[Mengu]

At first I the thought of a bonus save progressing a condition to a more harmful state was ridiculous. I figured I'd just houserule it so it wouldn't happen. Then I thought about it some more, and now, I'm ok with RAW.

Saving throws are basically a random duration for an effect. The faster I rid myself of the effect, the faster I can start helping my party. For instance an enemy wizard casts Sleep on me. I'm slowed. Before my turn, the paladin decides he wants to give me a free save. I roll poorly and fall a sleep. Then the cleric goes, and gives me another save, I make this one. So I'm conscious. Then the warlord goes and gives me a free move action. I stand up. Now it's my turn, and I get to be fully functional. If the paladin hadn't given me the save that put me to sleep, I would have lost a round.

 

[Shabe]

Of course what happens when the hobgoblin is forced into hindering terrain and gets a saving throw, does he get two saving throws, or does he move into the square after the first.

Then theres the matter of Death Saving throws, if there was ever a Hobgoblin PC...

 

[SableWyvern]

Then theres the matter of Death Saving throws, if there was ever a Hobgoblin PC...

I don't believe unconcious characters are allowed to take immediate reactions.

 

[Shabe]

I don't believe unconcious characters are allowed to take immediate reactions.

good point, they aren't allowed to take any actions.

 

[JGulick]

Saving throws are basically a random duration for an effect. The faster I rid myself of the effect, the faster I can start helping my party.

This reasoning works OK with all effects where the worst state still has "(save ends)" on it, but less than OK on, say, Petrifying Gaze, where a 2nd failure offers no save any longer.

Of course what happens when the hobgoblin is forced into hindering terrain and gets a saving throw, does he get two saving throws, or does he move into the square after the first.

Hindering Terrain would not trigger the power.

It is not "an effect that a save can end", but rather an alternate use of the Save mechanic.

 

[Audrik]

At first I the thought of a bonus save progressing a condition to a more harmful state was ridiculous. I figured I'd just houserule it so it wouldn't happen. Then I thought about it some more, and now, I'm ok with RAW.

Saving throws are basically a random duration for an effect. The faster I rid myself of the effect, the faster I can start helping my party. For instance an enemy wizard casts Sleep on me. I'm slowed. Before my turn, the paladin decides he wants to give me a free save. I roll poorly and fall a sleep. Then the cleric goes, and gives me another save, I make this one. So I'm conscious. Then the warlord goes and gives me a free move action. I stand up. Now it's my turn, and I get to be fully functional. If the paladin hadn't given me the save that put me to sleep, I would have lost a round.

With this interpretation of the rule, yes, if the Paladin hadn't given you the save that put you to sleep, you would have lost a round. However, because he gave you that save, technically he, the cleric and the warlord all lost their rounds so you could retain yours. If this happens, you'd better make the absolute best of the round they saved for you.

 

[Mengu]

This reasoning works OK with all effects where the worst state still has "(save ends)" on it, but less than OK on, say, Petrifying Gaze, where a 2nd failure offers no save any longer.

Petrifying Gaze is a rare exception. Are there many other such abilities?

With this interpretation of the rule, yes, if the Paladin hadn't given you the save that put you to sleep, you would have lost a round. However, because he gave you that save, technically he, the cleric and the warlord all lost their rounds so you could retain yours. If this happens, you'd better make the absolute best of the round they saved for you.

None of them lost a round. For the Paladin, it was only a minor action, Divine Mettle. For the cleric it was merely a side effect of hitting an enemy with Sacred Flame. For the Warlord, Knight's Move costs a move action, but it's something he plans to use once per encounter anyway, so it's not a loss per se. And he still has his standard action for something else, like charging an enemy.

 

[JGulick]

Petrifying Gaze is a rare exception. Are there many other such abilities?

Not really. Medusa, Basilisk, Oni Night Haunter (pre-errata), and the Night Hag. So, in effect, only 3.

Which doesn't mean there won't be more in time, but does mean the problem, such as it is, is currently limited by its narrow scope.