HoH: tainted raver - what is the +CR?

[evilbob]

Thanks to the consistantly poor editing in WotC products, I have a question. In Heroes of Horror, the "tainted raver" template does not have a listed CR. Not that it was given a +0 CR, but it simply has none (due to awful editing). And of course, there are no errata or any other official corrections that I have been able to find. (I don't expect one anytime soon, either - they need to get a move on with not editing 4.0.)

In the "official" template list on the WotC site, the CR is given as "varies." I take this to mean it is likely based on the HD of the creature. However, that's the best detail I can find.

Does anyone actually know what the CR of this template is?

Barring that, what would folks consider this template to be (assuming it is based on HD)?

 

[skelso]

Well, the sample Tainted Raver is a 5th-level fighter, which ordinarily has a CR 5 without the template. It still has a CR 5 with the template, so it's safe to assume that at least for the first 5 HD, the CR adjustment is 0. Judging by what sort of changes the template gives, the improvements would probably help less with higher hit dice, rather than more. I think I'd feel pretty confident ruling that the fact that it doesn't list a CR change indicates that there isn't one.

 

[evilbob]

That's also a fair interpretation.

I guess I just feel like perma-rage, +6 Cha, +fast healing deserves -some- kind of CR increase; making it zero just doesn't feel like enough. And for certain creatures, the template works much better than others (like fighter-types that also have abilities based on Cha). Anyway, it's possible that it increases it by zero, but it seems like it should do more.

Although I agree that the changes are less impressive with higher hit dice. Maybe 1-4 HD, +1 CR, but 5+ HD, +0? (Although that seems low.)

 

[Jhaelen]

I guess I just feel like perma-rage, +6 Cha, +fast healing deserves -some- kind of CR increase; making it zero just doesn't feel like enough. And for certain creatures, the template works much better than others (like fighter-types that also have abilities based on Cha). Anyway, it's possible that it increases it by zero, but it seems like it should do more.

Well, that's the basic problem with every template: It's pretty impossible to judge the effect of the template on a creature's CR without considering the individual creature.

If you feel the CR of the resulting creature is too low, chances are it is (at least if you have some experience as a DM). Feel free to increase it to whatever CR seems right to you!