Hokey smokes-- designing a 4th edition class

[Asmor]

Wow. I think new classes are going to be a lot less prevalent for 4th edition than in 3rd edition. In 3rd edition, you could whip up a complete class in a few minutes, if it was fairly simple, or a few hours if it was more complex. You'd still need to playtest it, of course, but you'd at least have something.

In order to make a class for 4th edition, you need to put in a hell of a lot more work. Look at all the levels you've got to prepare powers for:

Level 1 at-will
Level 1 encounter
Level 1 daily
Level 2 utility
Level 3 encounter
Level 5 daily
Level 6 utility
Level 7 encounter
Level 9 daily
Level 10 utility
Level 13 encounter
Level 15 daily
Level 16 utility
Level 17 encounter
Level 19 daily
Level 22 utility
Level 23 encounter
Level 25 daily
Level 27 encounter
Level 29 daily

That's 20 sets of powers you've got to make. Just to ensure that each character has a choice, you need at least 42 powers (4 at-wills, 2 of each other set). And that's a bare minimum. In order to get the same level of detail as most of the WotC classes, you need 4-5 powers per set-- around 80-100 different powers, each of which needs to be not just created but tested for balance and fun-- and that's not even getting into making sure that your powers aren't too similar to the 100 other powers of every other class out there.

Then there's the other stuff- the class features, the fluff, 3-4 paragon paths...

It's absolutely mindboggling.

 

[Nifft]

It's clearly a plan to reduce the value of fan content.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Corsair]

I imagine new books will introduce new powers, and some classes will eventually share some powers.

 

[Asmor]

It's clearly a plan to reduce the value of fan content.

Cheers, -- N

I'm not sure if you're being facetious or not, and I doubt that that was their plan, but it certainly seems like a likely effect.

On the flipside, it actually sparks my interest in 3rd party products, since I suspect that classes will be much more rare than they were in 3rd edition.

 

[jdrakeh]

It's clearly a plan to reduce the value of fan content.

Cheers, -- N

I dunno. A great majority of fan content is already near worthless, IMHO. The killer was that it got published and people paid money for it. Fan material should, IMHO, stay free.

Now, before everybody gets their hate on (and I'm certain that they will), I want to point out that I design a lot of fan material (e.g., Core Elements, Core Elements Revised, Simple 20, EZ20, etc). I have never charged any money for it, however. Not because I can't (I certainly could and, in some cases, have been urged to).

I know that stuff laid out in WordPerfect 10 with little (or horrible) art, no third-party editorial oversight, and precious little open playtesting by outside parties deserves to stay free. If I charged you for that kind of low grade product, I'd be ripping you off. Unfortunately, some 'publishers' have no problem with this.

I see the intricate underlying design structure of D&D 4e as a possible way to dissuade Joe Average Fan from slapping together some house rules in Word and selling them for the same price as hardcover books produced by honest-to-god publishers. Hey, I'd like to tell you that this never happened in the days of D&D 3x. But it did.

If the tight design of D&D 4ed was implemented partially to head off the flood of awful "I'll write some stuff for my home campaign and then sell it for money!" supplements at the pass, I'm all in favor of it. Retailers (and some consumers) still lament purchasing the low quality publications of which I speak.

 

[jmucchiello]

And they won't be 3 page PDFs. They'll have some weight. It would not surprise me to see a couple different bard and druid class PDFs on Oct 1.

 

[Shroomy]

Don't forget that you also have to design a multi-class feat too.

 

[Darrin Drader]

Yep, might as well just retire from game design and get a real job. This is too difficult now.

 

[Vael]

And here I thought class design would be easier. You have a more focused role design structure, a skeleton to place your powers and a good outline of the needed power level of your powers. A lot more of the work has already been done in a way.

I'm more concerned that this structure may become a bit of a straitjacket. What about an Incarnum-like class, or other classes that don't fit the core power design schema? Will future classes monkey with the current power structure? Can we make balanced classes that don't follow the same rules?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

And here I thought class design would be easier. You have a more focused role design structure, a skeleton to place your powers and a good outline of the needed power level of your powers. A lot more of the work has already been done in a way.

I'm more concerned that this structure may become a bit of a straitjacket. What about an Incarnum-like class, or other classes that don't fit the core power design schema? Will future classes monkey with the current power structure? Can we make balanced classes that don't follow the same rules?

It's definitely a straight jacket, yes. But then, 2 types of save, 3 types of BAB progression, and a unified skill system are also a kind of straight jacket.

I think a divergence from the current power format of classes will only be possible in a "Game Mod" sense, more something like Iron Heroes then the Expanded Psionics Handbook. If you don't, you will be hard pressed to create something like multiclassing or using Paragon Path and Epic Destinies.

But there is still a lot of flexibility built in, I think. Wizards have spellbooks to prepare different dailies each day. Some powers are daily, and affect the entire encounter. (I am unfortunately not familiar with material for Incarnum to judge whether its impossible to replicate that feel.)


New classes will be harder to create but people will create more powers for the existing classes.
There are "holes" to fill that don't necessarily require a new class, just a few new thematic powers. (More Swashbuckler style feats for Fighter, Rogue? A new Ranger fighting style? A new Pact for Warlocks? Alignment or God-based powers for Clerics and Paladins?)

Powers seem clearly structured and easy to make, and there is enough to compare them to.