Holding a Creature with Telekinesis?

[imaria]

I have a psionic character with Telekinetic Force, with the intent to use it to hold creatures in place. However, there are no useful rules listed anywhere I can find as to the implications of that.

They get a will save against a 3rd level power, and then... what? I know I can move them 20 feet per round, but what if I don't move them at all? Can I even hold them still, or can they run away and I have to jerk them back? The power (and original spell) are both terribly unclear on this.

Control Body, which can hold someone helpless, is a 4th level power, so it would seem that I can't hold them THAT still... except Control Body has other abilities as well, so it's a debatable comparison. Hold Person is a 3rd level Wizard spell (which seems most comparable) that also holds someone completely immobile, so it almost seems fair... except whoops, it allows a save per round, whereas Telekinetic Force doesn't. I'd say pinned would make sense... except Telekinetic Maneuver exists specifically to do things like grappling people, and it's a level higher.

I'm not even sure I CAN hold someone in place with Force... except what happens if I lift them 10ft off the ground? ARGH.

Any help? I'm bleeding out the brain on this.

 

[Sekhmet]

In my interpretation, you sure could hold a person in place. At least, in one five foot square or another. They can swing wildly, fight, manifest powers, cast spells, or whatever as normal, they just couldn't move from where you put them.

Hold Person/Telekinetic Force prevents them from doing anything but purely mental activities.

 

[imaria]

Would it have any effects on them for defense or attack purposes? Any penalties/flat-footed, etc? Even Levitate imposes penalties after attacks, etc.

It just feels like there should be SOME penalty for being held in place, even if you can't hold them helplessly.

 

[Sekhmet]

Assuming they can't move around well, I'd probably make them count as Flat Footed. I wouldn't think about it too much more, or you're going to start trying to come up with ways to break the spell/make it better than it was supposed to be.

 

[Greenfield]

Easy solution: Lift them off the ground.

At that point they're very much like a person under a Levitation effect. They can't walk, run, jump etc. if their feet are out of contact with the ground.

Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal or close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: You or one willing creature or one object (total weight up to 100 lb./level)
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
Levitate allows you to move yourself, another creature, or an object up and down as you wish. A creature must be willing to be levitated, and an object must be unattended or possessed by a willing creature. You can mentally direct the recipient to move up or down as much as 20 feet each round; doing so is a move action. You cannot move the recipient horizontally, but the recipient could clamber along the face of a cliff, for example, or push against a ceiling to move laterally (generally at half its base land speed).
A levitating creature that attacks with a melee or ranged weapon finds itself increasingly unstable; the first attack has a –1 penalty on attack rolls, the second –2, and so on, to a maximum penalty of –5. A full round spent stabilizing allows the creature to begin again at –1.
Focus: Either a small leather loop or a piece of golden wire bent into a cup shape with a long shank on one end.

The only real difference would be that you can use Telekinesis on an unwilling subject.

 

[imaria]

What about attacking a Telekinetically Levitated character, then? I thought a levitated character was also considered flat-footed, but couldn't find rules to back that up.

 

[Greenfield]

I recall advice on the subject of Levitation: That while it might get a spell caster away from melee, it makes them a clear target for archers and other ranged attacks.

But I don't ever recall saying that they were flat footed or in any way defenseless against such attacks, they just lost the benefit of any cover their companions on the ground might have provided.

So while their defensive movements can't help them dodge into another square, they can still use a shield, parry with a blade, or twist and move within their square, so I'd say their defense is unaffected.

Note that, with Levitate, they're potentially tumbling or off balance, which is why they suffer a progressive combat penalty. But they can straighten themselves out.

With Telekinesis, you could not only lift them, you could tumble them, stand them on their head or spin them like a top.

I'd give them a Balance check with the same DC as the Will save to maintain an upright position, with the failure meaning that you're able to face them as you choose, and thus effectively flat footed against one or more opponents.