Holding an NPC under threat of death

[Turanil]

As a GM this happened often: a player wants his character to catch a NPC, "put a blade against his throat", and say "If you move I kill you".

Well, unless I am mistaken, there is nothing in the rules (be it d20/3e or C&C) to handle that. It's all about GM's fiat, and the quick way to abusing the rules. Generally the players rant if i tell them it doesn't exist in the rules, and if I let them do it, they rant if I don't let them kill the NPC on the spot if he tries to escape. Almost everytime this has degenerated into tiring and useless argument. I don't want to prevent the PC attempt this thing seen so often in movies, but I don't want it to be an excuse for abusing the rules.

So, I would like to know how you all handle it.

As far as I am concerned, I would do that, but I know there still will be players to rant if their character can't do it:

1) Assassin class: PC must attempt his Death Attack normally. If he succeeds I say he is just delaying the kill, while putting the blade under the NPC's throat. At any time he can instantly kill the NPC except that the NPC is entitled an initiative check (against an initiative check by the assassin PC). If the NPC fails, he dies; if he succeeds he is entitled a new saving throw against the death attack attempt.

2) Non-assassin class: It's handled in not only requiring a successful grapple check or normal attack, but also requires an Intimidate skill check. If the check succeeds, the NPC is scared and thus obeys the PC. In any case, if the NPC attempts to escape the PC holding him under threat of death, the PC will only be able to inflict normal weapon damage against the NPC's hit-points.

 

[pawsplay]

Just roll initiative. If the held guy is flat-footed, tough luck, otherwise, he gets a chance to do something.

 

[Saeviomagy]

It's an intimidate check. That's all. The PC is trying to scare the NPC into thinking that he can actually kill him in a single blow if he moves. This is the case whether or not the PC can actually do it - if the PC fails the check, the NPC doesn't believe him, and may act.

If the PC wants to be able to actually carry out this threat, he needs to have a couple of things.

1. He needs to be able to make his grapple check
2. He needs to be able to attack in the grapple
3. He needs to be able to cause a lot of damage in the grapple

For high level NPCs this isn't likely to happen, but it should work just fine on low level mooks.

 

[adwyn]

I use an opposed reflex check with the improved initiative also counting. Successful Bluff check or other distraction for a +2 bonus.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I use an opposed reflex check with the improved initiative also counting. Successful Bluff check or other distraction for a +2 bonus.

After which what happens? The guy just dies? Or you get a single regular attack?

 

[Trainz]

D&D just doesn't handle this situation, and I agree, it should.

I think I would require the attacking PC to establish a pin maneuver, nut just a simple grapple. The target doesn't have to be down on the floor, the PC can simply place himself behind him, his blade under his throat.

At this point, I would consider the target helpless with regard to the attacking character pining him only. Since he's "helpless", he's suceptible to a CDG. The PC established the pin on his action, so presumably the next action is the target's, and he has two choices:

Choice A: the target remains still, hoping that the attacker will just hold the blade there and not kill him.

Choice B: the target decides to attempt to break the pin, and succeeds, then he's free of his "helpless" state towards the attacker. If he fails to break the pin, then he is still helpless. On the attackers initiative, it's his choice to make his CDG, or simply tell his target something like "nice try... try this again, and I'll cut your throat...".

If the attacker decides to CDG, well... the target will have a hard time to survive the attack. He might, but if he's just a lowly peasant in distress, death is almost assured.

YMMV

 

[Coredump]

As a very very wise man once said.... "Maybe...just maybe... the designers jumped to the insane conclusion that this game was meant to be run with a *DM* that can take into account certain things that would otherwise not make sense."

I think it belongs in DM fiat-land. If they have the drop on a mook, sure thing. If not, I might make them roll a grapple. Or if there are a few of them on one...probably let it happen.

But they should know that a 'heroic' character has a chance of getting out of that situation.

 

[S'mon]

I think I would require the attacking PC to establish a pin maneuver, nut just a simple grapple. The target doesn't have to be down on the floor, the PC can simply place himself behind him, his blade under his throat.

At this point, I would consider the target helpless with regard to the attacking character pining him only

That's pretty much what I do - a Pinned character can be CDG'd by a dagger to the throat. Just putting a sword to the chest of the guard captain won't allow CDG though, he could just step back; at most you'd get an attack of opportunity.

 

[JamesDJarvis]

As a GM this happened often: a player wants his character to catch a NPC, "put a blade against his throat", and say "If you move I kill you".

Well, unless I am mistaken, there is nothing in the rules (be it d20/3e or C&C) to handle that. It's all about GM's fiat, and the quick way to abusing the rules. Generally the players rant if i tell them it doesn't exist in the rules, and if I let them do it, they rant if I don't let them kill the NPC on the spot if he tries to escape. Almost everytime this has degenerated into tiring and useless argument. I don't want to prevent the PC attempt this thing seen so often in movies, but I don't want it to be an excuse for abusing the rules.

You want to see the players rant? Let an NPC do it to them and see how they act.

 

[adwyn]

After which what happens? The guy just dies? Or you get a single regular attack?

It varies - usually if the threatened person wins I still allow the threatening party an AoO. If not I allow the normal Coup de Grace - however I houseruled it takes the victim to -1 not instant death (damage aside) so there is time for intervention.