Holding breath

[irdeggman]

That's not the point.

The point is this text from the Swim skill:

You can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to twice your Constitution score...
and
You can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to [...] your Constitution score...

depending which printing of the Player's Handbook or which SRD you quote.

This inconsistency is adressed even by other game companies, as I was about to uncover.

Look here: http://www.rpgnow.com/product_reviews_info.php?products_id=5542&reviews_id=10329&

Kind regards

Hmmm

I don't understand.

The complete text says exactly what I stated - it depends on what type of action you are performing.

SRD

SWIM (STR; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
Check: Make a Swim check once per round while you are in the water. Success means you may swim at up to one-half your speed (as a full-round action) or at one-quarter your speed (as a move action). If you fail by 4 or less, you make no progress through the water. If you fail by 5 or more, you go underwater.

If you are underwater, either because you failed a Swim check or because you are swimming underwater intentionally, you must hold your breath. You can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution score, but only if you do nothing other than take move actions or free actions. If you take a standard action or a full-round action (such as making an attack), the remainder of the duration for which you can hold your breath is reduced by 1 round. (Effectively, a character in combat can hold his or her breath only half as long as normal.) After that period of time, you must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round to continue holding your breath. Each round, the DC for that check increases by 1. If you fail the Constitution check, you begin to drown.

The DC for the Swim check depends on the water, as given on the table below.

I haven't found a version of the PHB that differs from this yet.

The amount of time you can hold your breath depends on what type of action you doing at while holding your breath.

Move and free actions = twice your Con score.

Standard and full round action = 1 round less (effectively half as long)

I am assuming we are talking about 3.5 by the way.

 

[Infiniti2000]

The complete text says exactly what I stated - it depends on what type of action you are performing.

Note that you quoted the same section twice, but from different sources and they say different things. One is "twice" and the other isn't. There's no errata/FAQ and this is the source of the OP's confusion. Unless someone can point to errata/FAQ, the solution is to take the primary source rule and use the DMG.

 

[irdeggman]

Note that you quoted the same section twice, but from different sources and they say different things. One is "twice" and the other isn't. There's no errata/FAQ and this is the source of the OP's confusion. Unless someone can point to errata/FAQ, the solution is to take the primary source rule and use the DMG.

Please show me where the text is differetn in the two quotes I made.

I only chnaged the portions bolded/underlined for emphasis.


There is no inconsistency in the text under swim - which is what people are saying.

The OP had mentioned the differences between the DMG and the PHB.

There is an apparent difference there.

PHB (from SRD)

SWIM (STR; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
Check: Make a Swim check once per round while you are in the water. Success means you may swim at up to one-half your speed (as a full-round action) or at one-quarter your speed (as a move action). If you fail by 4 or less, you make no progress through the water. If you fail by 5 or more, you go underwater.

If you are underwater, either because you failed a Swim check or because you are swimming underwater intentionally, you must hold your breath. You can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution score, but only if you do nothing other than take move actions or free actions. If you take a standard action or a full-round action (such as making an attack), the remainder of the duration for which you can hold your breath is reduced by 1 round. (Effectively, a character in combat can hold his or her breath only half as long as normal.) After that period of time, you must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round to continue holding your breath. Each round, the DC for that check increases by 1. If you fail the Constitution check, you begin to drown.

The DC for the Swim check depends on the water, as given on the table below

DMG (from SRD):

WATER DANGERS
Any character can wade in relatively calm water that isn’t over his head, no check required. Similarly, swimming in calm water only requires skill checks with a DC of 10. Trained swimmers can just take 10. (Remember, however, that armor or heavy gear makes any attempt at swimming much more difficult. See the Swim skill description.)
By contrast, fast-moving water is much more dangerous. On a successful DC 15 Swim check or a DC 15 Strength check, it deals 1d3 points of nonlethal damage per round (1d6 points of lethal damage if flowing over rocks and cascades). On a failed check, the character must make another check that round to avoid going under.

Very deep water is not only generally pitch black, posing a navigational hazard, but worse, it deals water pressure damage of 1d6 points per minute for every 100 feet the character is below the surface. A successful Fortitude save (DC 15, +1 for each previous check) means the diver takes no damage in that minute. Very cold water deals 1d6 points of nonlethal damage from hypothermia per minute of exposure.
Drowning

Any character can hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to twice her Constitution score. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check every round in order to continue holding her breath. Each round, the DC increases by 1.
When the character finally fails her Constitution check, she begins to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns.

It is possible to drown in substances other than water, such as sand, quicksand, fine dust, and silos full of grain.

Now the DMG text is in the "glossary".

It also does not talk about anything other than staying alive.

The PHB text talks about performing other things (i.e., standard or full round actions).

If the two texts are put side by side and read, paying attention to the text that is missing from the DMG it becomes clearer, at least IMO, what is meant.

The DMG is only talking about water hazards and drowning.

The PHB is attempting to address cicumstances that modify it.

The PHB takes precedence in matters pertaining to combat and specific actions.

The DMG takes precedence when it comes to magic items and environmental stuff.

The PHB text is more inclusive than the DMG and hence, IMO, is the defining text to use.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Please show me where the text is differetn in the two quotes I made.

Sure.

In post #6: "You can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to twice your Constitution score..."

In post #11: "You can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution score..."

 

[beepeearr]

I had never noticed the discrepency until today, funny. The suffocation rule also states double your constitution score, but Stormwrack states only for your constitution score. I think I would go with the double your constitution to mirror the suffocation rules.

 

[Scharlata]

I didn't mean that sarcastically or snarkily or anything either.

???

For Mount Olympus' sake! I've not - I repeat: not - felt sarcastically, snarkily or anything else-ly threatened by any of your replies.



But still I'm not entirely convinced yet.

 

[Scharlata]

[...] Stormwrack states only for your constitution score.

Aha! Nice catch! I could've looked there, too.

Seems to be a copy and paste error by the Wizards of the Coast, I guess.

Thanx

 

[Arnwyn]

I had never noticed the discrepency until today, funny. The suffocation rule also states double your constitution score, but Stormwrack states only for your constitution score. I think I would go with the double your constitution to mirror the suffocation rules.

Indeed, Stormwrack continues with the discrepancy (continued WotC bad editing, or sick joke?).

On p. 11 of Stormwrack, it says "... a number of rounds equal to your Constitution score...", but then on p. 92, in the Expert Swimmer feat, under the "Normal" heading "...a number of rounds equal to twice your Constitution..."

Thanks WotC. Thanks a lot. (FWIW, I assume that the rule is 2x Con.)

 

[irdeggman]

Sure.

In post #6: "You can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to twice your Constitution score..."

In post #11: "You can hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to your Constitution score..."

No, in both cases I quoted the entire paragraph that had both conditions listed.

that is if doing nothing but move and free actions - twice Con score

If using standard or full round actions - then this is reduced by 1 round.


All of this is contained in the same paragraph under Swim, which I have continually quoted - so I don't see what you are talking about really I don't.

 

[irdeggman]

I had never noticed the discrepency until today, funny. The suffocation rule also states double your constitution score, but Stormwrack states only for your constitution score. I think I would go with the double your constitution to mirror the suffocation rules.

Stormwrack pg 11 under drowning has the exact same text as is under Swim in the PHB with the single exception of your Con score instead of twice your Con score. Good catch. This is totally hosed up.