Holding breath

[Scharlata]

All of this is contained in the same paragraph under Swim, which I have continually quoted - so I don't see what you are talking about really I don't.

Hold! Stop! Come to rest! Easy! Relax!

Clear your mind! Free your soul! Let it come slowly to you, like a gentle wave!

I2K and me are talking about the discrepancy that arose due to various printings of the Player's Handbook. My old PHB 3.5 (July 2003) does NOT mention in the description of Holding Breath (see the Swim skill) that someone can hold his/her breath twice - just ONCE - his/her Constitution in rounds.

Understood?

OK!

Proceed!

Now, you seem to own a newer printing of the same Player's Handbook. Your Swim skill description does mention that someone can hold his/her breath for TWICE his/her Constitution in rounds.

Got it?

Well...

Then, there are various sources like the SRDs (plural), the DMG, Stormwrack, and Third Party Stuff that mention holding breath. Those texts differ from one another regarding the duration of holding breath. There lies the discrepancy.

Take a deep breath

So, that does not interfere with your position of pointing out that the duration (should it be CON x1, or CON x2) is shortened by 1 round for every full-round or standard action you take.

D'accord?

Very kind regards

 

[irdeggman]

Hold! Stop! Come to rest! Easy! Relax!

Clear your mind! Free your soul! Let it come slowly to you, like a gentle wave!

I2K and me are talking about the discrepancy that arose due to various printings of the Player's Handbook. My old PHB 3.5 (July 2003) does NOT mention in the description of Holding Breath (see the Swim skill) that someone can hold his/her breath twice - just ONCE - his/her Constitution in rounds.

Understood?

Got it and you are correct.

What messed me up was people saying that I had quoted 2 different (and conflicting) sources - which I hadn't.

Checking my "old" hard copy of the 3.5 PHB - it does say Con score under swim skill, while my newer one and the most recent SRD says twice Con.

Have I said before that WotC is absolutely messed up in how they are handling errata and the like?

I'm sure I have on other threads.

This is just another example of where the made a "revision" without a corresponding errata for those with older books and yet updated the SRD at the same time.

IMO the newer print version is the right one to use, but there are still a lot of conflicting things out there. It must depend on where the "author" looked for his references.

 

[Infiniti2000]

What messed me up was people saying that I had quoted 2 different (and conflicting) sources - which I hadn't.

Your two quotes in the two posts I mentioned conflict. One says "twice" and the other doesn't. Note of course that this aren't quotes of yours, but you quoting (presumably) the SRD. Perhaps you quoted two sections of the same SRD or two SRD's (either is possible in this case). The WotC SRD on the Swim skill conflicts with Hypertext's, for example.

 

[ThirdWizard]

irdeggman, do a search of your post 11 (with Ctrl+F with Firefox, maybe the same with IE). You'll find that nowhere in the quoted text from the SRD does it have the word "double" anywhere. Neither does the WotC SRD contain the word "double" in the description of how long you can hold your breath.

Are you absolutely sure that your printing of the PHB says "double" in it?

The WotC SRD on the Swim skill conflicts with Hypertext's, for example.

Do you have any idea why that is? I'm lost on that one. There's no errata on it.

 

[irdeggman]

All right you guys are correct the SRD has "single".

The Collector's version (i.e., leather bound) 3.5 PHB doees indeed have "twice" in the text.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Do you have any idea why that is? I'm lost on that one. There's no errata on it.

The Hypertext SRD is notoriously "updated" to fix such inconsistencies. It supposedly contains all errata and I think it incorporates the FAQ here and there. I have been caught on its modifications a couple of times, but generally it is correct. In this case, it differs from the real SRD, but as I've said above, I think it deviates with good intent. Quite frankly, I think deviations would be welcomed, but they should contain a note.

 

[Scharlata]

The Collector's version (i.e., leather bound) 3.5 PHB doees indeed have "twice" in the text.

Yeah! That's the one.

In WotC's http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary[u]Glossary[/u] "Drowning" the time to hold breath is also doubled, as I know by now.

Kind regards and glad you made it

 

[irdeggman]

The Hypertext SRD is notoriously "updated" to fix such inconsistencies. It supposedly contains all errata and I think it incorporates the FAQ here and there. I have been caught on its modifications a couple of times, but generally it is correct. In this case, it differs from the real SRD, but as I've said above, I think it deviates with good intent. Quite frankly, I think deviations would be welcomed, but they should contain a note.

Correct, which is why I never rely on a hypertext (i.e., someone's individually made one) to use as a rules based question.

There is only "one" SRD to use in this context (i.e., a rules discussion) and that is the WotC one, IMO.

 

[Stormrunner]

Of course, we could take the radical step of referring to the real world.
Personally, I find it quite difficult to hold my breath for more than a minute (10 rounds). Around 50 sec (8 rounds) I start having to make saves. Now, I admit that my CON is not the best, but neither am I bedridden. CON 8 sounds about right, and that neatly fits the duration I experience, if 1xCON is the rule. If the rule is 2xCON, then my CON is around 4 or 5, which seems a wee bit low.
OTOH, the official world record is apparently 8 minutes, 8 seconds (81 rounds) for men and 6 minutes, 6 seconds (61 rounds) for women (smaller lung size?). Note that this is the point at which the person failed their save. Given the RAW for how the save increases, I would expect this to happen, on average, about where the chance of failure hits 50%, that is, (CON-10) rounds after starting to make saves. If we assume the record-holder has a CON of 18, this would seem to argue for a 5xCON limit.
Does the Endurance feat affect breath-holding? Is there a Hold Breath feat? If so, we should assume the record-holder has all appropriate feats and go from there.
I suspect that IRL breath-holding is not a simple linear relationship, i.e., a CON 18 person can hold their breath much more than 2x as long as a CON 9 person.
(edit) It appears these records are held by "freedivers", who place themselves in a meditative state, hyperventilate, swallow air, then sink into cold water while clutching a weight, drop the weight, and float back up to the surface. So, they are A) highly trained for this specific activity (i.e., have every applicable feat and skill maxed out), B) are taking advantage of the "mammalian diving reflex" which slows heartbeat and oxygen use, C) are remaining very still - not even walking or swimming, much less fighting.

 

[Delta]

The d20 SRD site is incorporating the PHB collector's edition, which WOTC CustServ has claimed is official errata. See bottom of forum here: http://boards.d20srd.org/viewtopic.php?t=472&highlight=swim