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Holding the Charge
- Thread starter Vorput
- Start date
frodwith
First Post
Alright, relevant quotes first.
"In most cases, if you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Some touch spells, such as teleport and water walk, allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell." (PHB, 176)
"Touch: You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some tuch spells, such as teleport and water walk, allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch as many willing targets as you can reach as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell." (PHB, 175)
From these passages, it is clear that casters of spells (such as water walk) with a target of more than one touched creature/object must touch their targets as part of the casting, in the same round they cast the spell - actually, as part of the casting. Cast chill touch, for example, and you must touch the number of creatures allowed as part of the casting action, after which the spell is gone. As per the above quotes, you cannot hold the charge of such a spell. This is important.
"Holding the charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates." (PHB, 141)
Herein lies my quandry. The only type of touch spells that you can hold the spell on are those which affect only a single target (see above). Thus, it would seem that this touching six friends as a full round action refers to single target touch spells. However, it also says that the first thing you touch causes the spell to discharge. So, do you touch one fellow, who then gets the benefit, and then spend the rest of the round feeling up your friends for no reason? Or do they all receive the benefit of the spell? If so, do they receive the full benefit, or is the spell somehow split up amongst the recipients (reduced duration or healing)?
By the way, whoever made the comment about a player trying to get more bang for the buck for his spells, and that the player should be "smacked down" - that's really uncalled for. This is a legitimate question about game mechanics, and as the player who raised the question, I can assure you it's not because I'm trying to bend the rules to my advantage. This could apply to anyone who can cast a touch spell, not just me or even just my party. BBEGs would get this as well, and it could really affect tactics and strategy.
Anyways, awaiting your replies.
"In most cases, if you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Some touch spells, such as teleport and water walk, allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell." (PHB, 176)
"Touch: You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some tuch spells, such as teleport and water walk, allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch as many willing targets as you can reach as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell." (PHB, 175)
From these passages, it is clear that casters of spells (such as water walk) with a target of more than one touched creature/object must touch their targets as part of the casting, in the same round they cast the spell - actually, as part of the casting. Cast chill touch, for example, and you must touch the number of creatures allowed as part of the casting action, after which the spell is gone. As per the above quotes, you cannot hold the charge of such a spell. This is important.
"Holding the charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates." (PHB, 141)
Herein lies my quandry. The only type of touch spells that you can hold the spell on are those which affect only a single target (see above). Thus, it would seem that this touching six friends as a full round action refers to single target touch spells. However, it also says that the first thing you touch causes the spell to discharge. So, do you touch one fellow, who then gets the benefit, and then spend the rest of the round feeling up your friends for no reason? Or do they all receive the benefit of the spell? If so, do they receive the full benefit, or is the spell somehow split up amongst the recipients (reduced duration or healing)?
By the way, whoever made the comment about a player trying to get more bang for the buck for his spells, and that the player should be "smacked down" - that's really uncalled for. This is a legitimate question about game mechanics, and as the player who raised the question, I can assure you it's not because I'm trying to bend the rules to my advantage. This could apply to anyone who can cast a touch spell, not just me or even just my party. BBEGs would get this as well, and it could really affect tactics and strategy.
Anyways, awaiting your replies.
Last edited:
Infiniti2000
First Post
Welcome, Frodwith! Please forgive any slight over the other poster's comments. I assure you that not all comments will be as snarky and I doubt anything was meant to be personal.
Hope that helps.
I disagree. I think you can't hold the charge and THEN target multiple creatures, but as part of the casting you can target multiple creatures. You can hold the charge and target one creature, though. The "part of the casting" is necessary because otherwise you could not cast a spell and then as a full round action touch six allies. How useless would that be?Frodwith said:
When you are holding a touch spell, it can then only be used on one target, yes.Frodwith said:
Atually, it would seem that that rule is useless. That rule certainly cannot be construed to override the Target. If the Target is limited to One Creature, nothing in the Range line can override that. If anything, that rule (touching six friends) could be used to override the rule limiting holding a touch to a single target. This is how most people will interpret the rule.Frodwith said:
Hope that helps.
frodwith
First Post
To quote the phb again:
I would tend to think that it's just errata, because yes, it would override the target field seemingly. Hence the question; it seems that either this is a completely useless clause in the rules, or that it's allowing a special case for held charges that allows you to override the target field.
Infiniti2000
First Post
But, it doesn't override the target field. If you assume there is no error, then this line just becomes unusable...meaning that there is no spell for which it applies.frodwith said:
If there is an error, then you have to decide what is in error. Is it that you can hold the charge on multiple target touch spells? Or is it that you can cast heal and hold the charge, and then next round (unless you had quickened it) use it like mass heal on 6 allies?
Which one is more likely the error? Surely, you don't think that mass anything is the correct choice?
I've always assumed that rule was for damage-dealing touch spells that allow multiple touches, such as Chill Touch, which lets you target 1 creature per level. I don't see anything in that spell's decription that contradicts me--from SRD:
Chill Touch
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Targets: Creature or creatures touched (up to one/level)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial or Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes
A touch from your hand, which glows with blue energy, disrupts the life force of living creatures. Each touch channels negative energy that deals 1d6 points of damage. The touched creature also takes 1 point of Strength damage unless it makes a successful Fortitude saving throw. You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level.
An undead creature you touch takes no damage of either sort, but it must make a successful Will saving throw or flee as if panicked for 1d4 rounds +1 round per caster level.
Chill Touch
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Targets: Creature or creatures touched (up to one/level)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial or Will negates; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes
A touch from your hand, which glows with blue energy, disrupts the life force of living creatures. Each touch channels negative energy that deals 1d6 points of damage. The touched creature also takes 1 point of Strength damage unless it makes a successful Fortitude saving throw. You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level.
An undead creature you touch takes no damage of either sort, but it must make a successful Will saving throw or flee as if panicked for 1d4 rounds +1 round per caster level.
frodwith
First Post
Having discussed this with my DM, this seems to be the solution we both arrived at, so that's how we're going to play it. The question remains, though; what is the intent of the "six friends" clause on 141? Mass polymorphs can't have been in their head, so that's out the window. What are they trying to say?
werk
First Post
You can target up to one creature per caster level, that overrides the physical parameters of being able to touch up to six people.Cintra said:
Go with the spell description, not the maximum allowed by game mechanics.
Let's look at touch of idiocy.
So, touch of idiocy allows you to touch one living creature, despite the fact that you are physically able to touch up to 6 in one round, because after you touch one successfully the spell is discharged.
Waterbreathing obviously allows you to touch as many people as you are able...even the duration is rectified against the number of touched creatures.
See how the spell description tells you if you can affect multiple targets?
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