James McMurray
First Post
If you don't want to be convinced that you were right, just say so. 
But no, the books don't say anything definitive on the subject.
But no, the books don't say anything definitive on the subject.
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holy water + antimagic field =?
- Thread starter Scion
- Start date
James McMurray said:If you don't want to be convinced that you were right, just say so.
But no, the books don't say anything definitive on the subject.
I can be right or wrong on a spot decission, these things happen. But I definately want it to be ironed out the next time it comes up so that everyone knows how it really will work. I can make a call and stick with it, but I prefer to go by core as often as possible unless I decide to change it intentionally. Therefore the answer is important
Stalker0 said:
Very good point. Instananeous spell, but the effect goes on for a long time. But is the final result magical in nature? Is it a special compound or element? Is it 'charged' somehow with Good? Kindof like a soda and its carbination
mmm.. effervescent good.. gotta love it!
green slime
First Post
The spell changes the nature of the water. the changed water is not magical, and it does not detect as magical. The spell that causes the change is magical, but is Instantaneous, and the effect cannot be dispelled. Holy Water functions in an antimagic field and in magic dead zones.
IMO, YMMV, and all that.
IMO, YMMV, and all that.
James McMurray
First Post
So how does that nonmagical substance hrm, let alone touch, an incorporeal creature?green slime said:
Basically it takes a spell to create (and an alchemy check? I just read something about that but I dont have time currently to go chase things down through the srd).
The spell changes something about the liquid.
This change could not have occured without magic, and the change makes it so that the liquid can be used incredibly selectively as a psuedo acid. Mainly against undead and evil outsiders.
It can effect incorporeal creatures.
At least against the evil outsiders this seems like a very strange thing to be nonmagical. How does it tell? If it is 'infused' with some form of Good or positive energy why doesnt it take magic to keep it there? Since most alignment-based attacks and resistances are magical in nature this would seem to lend credence to it being a magical attack.
So magical or not, it has special properties. Properties that most mundane items just do not posses, and generally cannot. The rules seem to be on both sides (incorporeal are not effected by mundane sources, the creation process is instantaneous) and this causes problems.
I am still undecided on what final judgement to make. Both ways have their pluses and minuses.. I guess I'll have to come up with something that seems the best in the most cases.
The spell changes something about the liquid.
This change could not have occured without magic, and the change makes it so that the liquid can be used incredibly selectively as a psuedo acid. Mainly against undead and evil outsiders.
It can effect incorporeal creatures.
At least against the evil outsiders this seems like a very strange thing to be nonmagical. How does it tell? If it is 'infused' with some form of Good or positive energy why doesnt it take magic to keep it there? Since most alignment-based attacks and resistances are magical in nature this would seem to lend credence to it being a magical attack.
So magical or not, it has special properties. Properties that most mundane items just do not posses, and generally cannot. The rules seem to be on both sides (incorporeal are not effected by mundane sources, the creation process is instantaneous) and this causes problems.
I am still undecided on what final judgement to make. Both ways have their pluses and minuses.. I guess I'll have to come up with something that seems the best in the most cases.
James McMurray
First Post
How frequently does your group encouner holy water in an antimagi field? I'd think that if they are high enough level to cast AMF, they've got more powerful weapons available o them than holy water. 
Total immersion in holy water by a cleric useing antimagic field is rough though
Just have someone not in the antimagic field drop it in from above somehow and that undead will take some massive damage.
Or, something like the decanter of endless water but instead with holy water. Geyser into the antimagic area (not that I have allowed this yet, but the imagery might be too cool for me to pass up.. incredibly prohibitive cost of course though.)
It has come up once, but not from the players casting it. Just from being in an area that deadens magic, sortof like antimagic (in this case every unit weight of adamantite has a radius of partial negation, enough adamantite can cause total negation in a certain radius).
As such similar situations 'will' come up in the future, whether through the pc's doing it or by the enemies doing it for whatever reason. (high level fighters in full plate suits of adamantite, 3.0 by the way, carrying an adamantite shield and weapon along with extra bits here and there get certain bonuses against magic.. it is good for them ) So if it is a high level undead guy I need to know if I should reduce the effectiveness of holy water as well.
Just have someone not in the antimagic field drop it in from above somehow and that undead will take some massive damage.
Or, something like the decanter of endless water but instead with holy water. Geyser into the antimagic area (not that I have allowed this yet, but the imagery might be too cool for me to pass up.. incredibly prohibitive cost of course though.)
It has come up once, but not from the players casting it. Just from being in an area that deadens magic, sortof like antimagic (in this case every unit weight of adamantite has a radius of partial negation, enough adamantite can cause total negation in a certain radius).
As such similar situations 'will' come up in the future, whether through the pc's doing it or by the enemies doing it for whatever reason. (high level fighters in full plate suits of adamantite, 3.0 by the way, carrying an adamantite shield and weapon along with extra bits here and there get certain bonuses against magic.. it is good for them
) So if it is a high level undead guy I need to know if I should reduce the effectiveness of holy water as well.green slime
First Post
James McMurray said:
How does a huge chunk of iron materialise into being from nothingness, through a spell, and yet the same chunk of iron be non-magical and non-dispellable, and remain within a anti-magic field?
Not all things are necessarily explicable. It just does!
