D&D 5E [Homebrew] − Rethinking the Ability Scores

[Yaarel]

Continuing exploration ... four basic abilities.

Strength − physical
• Athletics (agility)
• Size (weightiness)

Charisma − social
• Willpower (sense of self)
• Sociability (sense of other)

Intelligence − mental
• Perception (empirical senses and intuitive reasoning)
• Precision (cautious exact motions)

Wisdom − spiritual
•
•


I havent decided how to split up Wisdom, but it is Wisdom in the spiritual sense of mysticism, magic, and mystery. In a modern context, this also includes scientific weirdness, including space-time relativity, quantum conscious observer effect, stuff ‘before’ the Big Bang, seat of consciousness, as well as psychological synchronicity.

This foursome has a suggestive correlation with mystical models, for example, in Judaism.

Strength (Malkhut)
Charisma (Tiferet)
Intelligence (Bina)
Wisdom (Khakhma)

The foursome shows up imprecisely in scientific hermeneutical models too. For example.

Strength (physical evidence)
Charisma (analysis, relationships, connections)
Intelligence (synthesis, deep patterns, body of knowledge, paradigms)
Wisdom (infinity, paradigm shifts)



In any case, the foursome of Strength, Charisma, Intelligence, and Wisdom, might prove especially useful for a gaming system engine.

 

[Yaarel]

Clustering skills is fine. But that doesn't need to apply to attack rolls or spell DC's.

And non-human races still have things that make them feel different. Half-orcs still have brutal crits, wood elves still move faster, halflings are lucky, ect... Those make things "feel" a lot different more than +1 to hit.
And you can replace a +2 Str with athletics proficiency. Maybe even expertise...

Hmm... Yea, racial expertise makes sense. Replaces the +stats. All dwarves get endurance, wood elves get stealth, high elves get arcana, ect...

Obviously training helps combat effectiveness. I like the way 5e handles the proficiency bonus across levels for various d20 rolls.

But skill clusters might effect attack and damage too. I assume some people are more ‘talented’ than others at shooting a rifle and so on, even if untrained.

With regard to D&D Nonhuman races, the other races are ... Nonhuman. They dont have human genetics, they dont have human brains, and so on. I assume, when comparing races to each other, some are necessarily more talented − socially, physically, mentally, spiritually. And tend to do better at certain skill sets.

For me, race ability differences make sense. In this context, ‘race’ means a different species of sapient beings.



Mellored, out of curiosity, what is it about the race ability score improvements, that you find objectionable?

 

[jgsugden]

I built a system a few years ago with 5 base ability scores and 10 derived ability scores representing every combination of two base ability scores:

Power
Dexterity
Magic
Intellect
Charisma
Power + Dexterity = Agility
Power + Magic = Supernaturalism
Power + Intellect = Precision
Power + Charisma = Braun
Dexterity + Magic = Spellweaving
Dexterity + Intellect = Nimbleness
Dexterity + Charisma = Luck
Magic + Intellect = Arcana
Magic + Charisma = Ego
Intellect + Charisma = Faith

You had the 5 basic ability scores and then your derived scores were an average of the two scores. It was fun, but balancing the utility of each of the combinations was a nightmare.

 

[mellored]

But skill clusters might effect attack and damage too. I assume some people are more ‘talented’ than others at shooting a rifle and so on, even if untrained.

I assume every fighter starts with 16 Str and eventually boost it to 20.

In practice, there is rarely a difference between a Dragonborn fighter, a Goliath fighter, and a Human fighter.

Mellored, out of curiosity, what is it about the race ability score improvements, that you find objectionable?

It's just a boring number.
Every race with +2 Str, is good at all the same Str stuff, and good at all the same classes.

Things that make the races feel difference are things like halflings lucky, half-orcs relentless endurance, or wood elfs extra speed.

 

[Yaarel]

It's just a boring number.
Every race with +2 Str, is good at all the same Str stuff, and good at all the same classes.

Things that make the races feel difference are things like halflings lucky, half-orcs relentless endurance, or wood elfs extra speed.

Ah.

I like the way the number of the ability score impacts the mechanics in a global way. So it impacts actual gameplay.

I also I like how race ability scores encourage the selection of certain classes − because this mechanically supports how different races and subraces develop different cultures. For example, the Wood Elf culture values the institutions of Ranger and Druid. And, they are good at them.

At the same time, I agree, special powers are vivid and interesting, to describe a race.

 

[mellored]

I like the way the number of the ability score impacts the mechanics in a global way. So it impacts actual gameplay.

I see little variation.
I mean, all rogues weather you're a halfling, human, or elf, take Dex and increase it to 20. You don't see rogues taking +2 Wis or +2 Int.

If everyone always makes the same choice, it's not really a choice.

I also I like how race ability scores encourage the selection of certain classes − because this mechanically supports how different races and subraces develop different cultures. For example, the Wood Elf culture values the institutions of Ranger and Druid. And, they are good at them.

You can do that without having stat boosts.

Half-orcs extra crit damage favors barbarians and champions.
Wood elf ability to hide in nature favors rangers and druids.
Halflings ability to hide behind larger creatures favors them as rogues in cities.
Dragonborn breath favors being on the front lines.
etc...

And that's just what's listed. There are plenty of other options as well. Giving wood elfs expertise in nature for instance.

 

[Yaarel]

You can do that without having stat boosts.

Half-orcs extra crit damage favors barbarians and champions.
Wood elf ability to hide in nature favors rangers and druids.
Halflings ability to hide behind larger creatures favors them as rogues in cities.
Dragonborn breath favors being on the front lines.
etc...

And that's just what's listed. There are plenty of other options as well. Giving wood elfs expertise in nature for instance.

It seems to me, those features have negligible influence on class selection. For example, in no circumstance would Wood Elf Mask of Nature encourage me to choose Ranger over any other class.

On the other hand, I am likely to choose the Wood Elf race when I want to play a Dex Ranger, because of its +2 to Dexterity.

So at the actual gaming table, when someone plays a Wood Elf, we as players can actually experience the Wood Elf ranger culture.



Unfortunately, when I want to play a Wizard, I would never select a High Elf, because its Intelligence score is suboptimal. (Nevermind the feature is suboptimal.) So, when the Players Handbook claims its culture associates with ‘magic’, the claim seems hollow. In the D&D tradition, the Grey Elf was an awesome Wizard (Magic User) precisely because of its then-unusual Intelligence bonus. But its explicit merger into the 5e High Elf almost feels like a betrayal.

Ability scores are the lifeblood of class selection.

 

[Wulffolk]

I have always disliked Wisdom as an ability score. Wisdom is the ability to make sound judgements based on past experience. It is not something you are born with. It is something you grow in to.

I prefer the use of Willpower (includes intuition) to replace Wisdom. This does lead to reconsideration of which ability scores should be the primary stat for spell-casting classes. What I use:

Intelligence - Wizards, Warlocks (though a case could be made for Willpower)
Willpower - Sorcerers, Druids, Rangers
Charisma - Clerics, Paladins

I use Charisma for divine magic, because prayers are about attracting the attention of a deity and convincing them to lend you magical powers.

 

[mellored]

On the other hand, I am likely to choose the Wood Elf race when I want to play a Dex Ranger, because of its +2 to Dexterity.

Which also works just as well for a monk, rogue, archery fighter, dex barbarian, or melee wild sorcerer.
Or from the other side, feral tieflings, goblins, kenku, halflings, tabaxi, and varient human with the athlete feat get the same +2 Dex.

Either way, stats do very little to enforce "wood elf's are rangers". It only stops wood elf from being paladins. Or high elves from being wizards.

Ability scores are the lifeblood of class selection.

Strongly disagree.

Imagination is the lifeblood of class selection.
Ability scores are the shackles of class selection. And not very good ones either.

 

[Yaarel]

Ability scores are the shackles. It only stops high elves from being wizards.

Ouch. Heh, that hurt.



Right now classes have score minimums, while races have score improvements.

What if races instead have score minimums too, without any score improvements?

For example, if you want to play a Half-Orc, then you must assign at least a 13 to the Strength score of that character. If you want to play a full Orc, you must assign at least a 15.

Say a Wood Elf requires at least a 13 to Dexterity and a 13 to Wisdom. But an (old school) Drow Elf requires at least a 15 to Dexterity and a 13 to any mental ability.



I can be happy with race minimums, because the abilities scores can still quantify differences among races and cultures.

Also, the lower numbers at lower levels are better for 5e gaming balance overall, with regard to ‘bounded accuracy’.



At the same time, there is more flexibility. As long as you meet the minimum requirements for the race and culture, you can still boost whatever ability you need to excel at whatever class you want to play. For example, use the standard array for a Wood Elf Wizard. Put the 13 in Wisdom, the 14 in Dexterity to satisfy the race minimum, then put the remaining 15 in Intelligence.

Wood Elf Wizard: Strength 8, Dexterity 14, Constitution 12, Intelligence 15, Wisdom 13, Charisma 10.

Thus with the Intelligence 15, this character is a top notch Wizard, equal to the top notch Wizard of any other player race.

Some races or cultures might have more extreme minimums, such as the Half Orc with minimum Strength 15 or the Drow Elf with the minimum Dexterity 15, meaning there is less flexibility, but that is probably ok once in a while. And only if the racial flavor is extreme, such as all Drow are ambidextrous. But even here you can assign ability score by using the standard point-buy.

Drow Elf Wizard: Strength 8, Dexterity 15, Constitution 10, Intelligence 15, Wisdom 10, Charisma 13.

That is an exemplary Drow Elf, and also a top notch Wizard.



So the solution seems a win-win. Get rid off race improvements and instead impose race minimums, similar to class minimums.