Thanks for the great feedback
@Undrave!
- HP : I think you could go d10 hit dice.
Ehh... I would say yes, but I'm already loading the monk up with defensive abilities. I think it's OK for the monk to stay skinny in with the power level I've already given it. In my mind, the monk is all about trying to not get hit or damaged too much in the first place.
- Shield use: I think you should just let the Monk pick up Shield prof if they want, and not mention it as a limitation. I think it could lead to more varied aesthetics.
I was thinking about a mechanic where the monk gets +2AC for keeping one hand free... in the end it was too complicated and confusing. It's present in Pathfinder (Crane Style feat chain) but that's a game where people EXPECT complicated 3.5isms.
The monk already gets plenty of AC from Perfect Defense, IMO.
- Intuitive Defense : Pretty good, not sure about the scaling over levels, however.
Maximum is 25AC with 13 + 5 Wis + 5 FA + 2 Bracers of Defense. Sword and Board gets 27 with 21 (+3 Plate) + 5 (+3 shield) +1 Defensive Fighting Style.
I think it's reasonable given the constraints: most of that costs no money or attunement slots, but you have to keep attacking or dodging every turn (i.e. hopefully being useful) to keep it up.
- Martial Arts Style : Maybe rename it something different that doesn't make it confusing with Martial Arts? I'm not a fan of putting the 9th level ability here and not under its own header. Not a fan of spellcasting on the monkey as presented it's a little weird... and I think you should give specific spells based on Sun Wukong's abilities. My suggestion is: Disguise Self, Mirror Image and Fly. Each with a Ki cost I think.
Touché! I'll try to think up a better name... hit me if you come up with one!
Right now the ki cost is 1 + spell level, similar to the Four Elements monk. I'm thinking of restricting it to the Wizard spell list but I'm not sure. Most of the examples people give me about how this would be abused come from the cleric or druid list.
Honestly, I just don't see it. What's wrong with a monk getting non-upcastable Cure Wounds, Shadow Blade, and Spirit Shroud? Or Shield, Lesser Resto and Fireball? Or Wrathful Smite, Warding Bond and Counterspell? At 9th, Monk can cast the first 6x, the second 4x, the third 3x per short rest. Can you help me game it out to see how that breaks the game? I'm not saying I don't believe it, but I'd appreciate if you could make the case for me.
What if I restricted it to: "You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to your proficiency modifier and replenishes uses on a long rest"? That way the monk can cast a few spells and it still costs ki, but it can't be abused by blasting every short rest.
EDIT: I'm doing this ^
- Martial Arts : I don't know if Hide as a bonus action is necessary, makes it feel too much like the Cunning Action of the Rogue. Flurry of Strike becomes pretty pointless once your Martial Arts dice catches up to your best weapon, in this case the staff and spear used two-handed. The wording is also a little odd on Flurry of Strike and the restriction doesn't feel necessary.
Why not duplicate the Cunning Action of the Rogue? I don't see it being overpowered... and there's a case for giving breathing room for a Monk to work like a ninja. Basically a Rogue... with Sneak Attack replaced by Flurry and most of the skill monkey juice carved out and replaced with limited Paladin abilities.
As for Flurry of Strikes: what if you've got a Dragonslayer Shortsword and go up against Big Red? At 11th level, that's 6d6 damage per turn... 9d6 if Red procs an AO.
There are a lot of situations where your monk weapon will do a lot more damage than your unarmed strikes, even after your Martial Arts die gets higher. For instance, if you find a +2 Quarterstaff before you get +2 Wraps of Unarmed Prowess.
- Unarmored Movement : 9th level upgrade should have its own header.
- Dedicated Weapon : I don't think this is necessary. It seems to only exist for people who have racial weapon proficiencies or maybe a multi class build.
LOL yeah these were both in the vanilla monk. I kept them in as-is to minimize fuss.
I think that racial profs deserve a little love, no? A dwarven monk with a warhammer seems legit to me. An effective +1 damage for a handful of levels isn't going to break any games, especially with an arguably suboptimal race pick.
- Deflect Blows : The first few levels are fairly heavy for this Monk. I don't know if the limitation to ranged attacks make sense in this situation and shouldn't just cover all bludgeoning/piecing/slashing attacks. right away. It would make the feature more straight forward and streamlined.
Yeah if you look at the previous comments up the thread... Deflect Blows is REALLY powerful. Powerful enough to make the otherwise underwhelming Revised Monk a real melee contender comparable to a PAM Halberd Fighter. If I left that in at level 2... a LOT of martials would be scrambling for a 2-level dip.
I think by 9th level when deflecting melee kicks in, average enemies have enough juice to not make that OP and it is effectively removed as MC-bait.
- Pefect Defence : I like the vibe, but it still feels like you're overloading the early levels.
Well it only works when you're unarmored and unshielded. Also when you're using an
action to attack or dodge every turn. Wizards/sorcs shouldn't care much about Intuitive Defense because it's basically mechanically identical to the
armor spell.
I can't see anyone making a 3-level dip to get it... plus the 4th to not sacrifice a precious ASI. Casters would benefit the most, but they don't get the bonus when spellcasting and they'd lock out 9th level spells. Heavy armor martials get basically the same protection or better without the hassle. And the bladelock has both problems: spellcasting AND they get medium armor + shield prof for free anyway, in addition to defensive spells.
- Ki-Fueled Attack : Should just be part of Flurry of Blows as a basic feature.
Also copied directly from vanilla monk. I could see folding it in! Would save on word count and make it less confusing. I'll think it over.
- Ki-Strike : Just simplify it as being magical for all unarmed and monk weapon attacks. Don't include the ki spending and don't even bother with the silvered and adamantine parts.
LOL you're absolutely right. I had no idea that magic apparently bypasses ?literally all? silver/adamantine resistances in 5e.
And I'll kill the ki cost too. In most situations where the weapon would be better (i.e. it's magic), the bonus wouldn't apply anyway.
- Flawless Attack : I don't like that one, feels too wordy and doesn't do much for a tenth level ability.
It's an average +3.6 DPR. At 11th, it's another 3.6 for 1 ki point. At that level, the Paladin is getting Improved Smite for 2.4975 DPR.
At 12th, assuming you use ASI on your FA, it's 4.8 + 4.8 DPR. Twice the benefit the Pally's getting or 4x for 1 ki (and you've got 16 ki per short rest at that point).
- Diamond Soul is maybe a little too strong?
I copied it verbatim from the Abjurer subclass. It's balanced for the level and corresponds directly to what the 3.5 monk had. I was thinking about limiting it to advantage on saving throws only, but there are some races that get it for free at 1st. Seemed kinda weak, especially since the Abjurer gets the full monty.
Also keep in mind that this DOESN'T protect the monk from non-spell saves like a dragon's breath. Inner Harmony is mechanically less useful at that level than vanilla Diamond Soul, but can be used earlier on and synergizes with the spell resistance that used to be an essential part of the monk repertoire.
- Capstone is fun but I don't know how practical it is.
Well, as long as the Monk can avoid damage or make Con saves to concentrate, it's got higher DPR than any other martial class. It's basically equivalent to a Fighter Action Surging every turn.
It basically makes the monk into a powerhouse... but one that can get REKT if you break their stride.
You could always make it so you get the bonus for moving?
OOOOOOOOOF. This may just be my bias, but I hate kiting as a strategy. One of the biggest criticism of the monk for years is that it zips all over the battlefield being useless and, at worst, less than useless by incentivizing the enemy to target more vulnerable party members first.
It may be contrarian, but I think classes should be the opposite. EVERYONE should be MAD. No more damage/hit from dex, only str for example. No master stats that give everything.
PREACH!
Unfortunately, that's not what we have in 5e. The normies won. All I'm trying to do is grease the squeaky wheel.
