Homebrew Class: Shaman

Crioni

First Post
Hey guys! Just threw together a new class, and I'd love to get some feedback. The basic design frames shaman as individuals who commune with spirits of various kinds. Mechanically, the base class is focused on doing a lot of things at once . . . Cantrips as bonus actions and multiple concentration spells simultaneously are the main features. The subclasses separate out into five different themes. Bonespeakers are a tough pseudo-necromancer. Cityspeakers are streetwise enchanters. Lifespeakers focus on helping people live life to its fullest (also, not die). Stringspeakers are a classic voodoo witch doctor. Wildspeakers are similar-ish to druids, but with more of an aggressive damage focus.

The full document is here. I have a Shaman Table all set, but couldn't get it into the Doc, so it's attached.

Anyhow, I'd love to hear feedback and suggestions! I should note that I'm okay with things running a little on the powerful side. I prefer overpowered to underpowered. Hope you enjoy!
 

Attachments

  • Shaman Table.xlsx
    13 KB · Views: 87

log in or register to remove this ad

Laurefindel

Legend
I believe your premise for the class is too strong; concentrating on multiple spells is very potent, especially at no resource cost other than the spell slot itself. If you absolutely want to go this way, I would suggest being able to conjure specific spirits, each one allowing you to concentrate on one specific spell for "free". (and thus allowing a certain control on possible broken combinations)

Also, the shaman eventually gains the ability to cast damage cantrips as bonus action, but some archetypes don't have access to any damage-dealing cantrip (unless create bondfire deals damage? I can't recall).

Pick proficiency in saving throws between INT + WIS or WIS + CHA, but don't offer a choice (especially not INT + CHA). If you want, adding proficiency in INT or CHA saves at later stage in the class is a solution for the INT+WIS+CHA save proficiencies.

I also suggest narrowing your focus on different archetypes, like two or three. Right now it is too much to provide feedback without getting heavily involved.

Finally, "standard" caster archetypes in 5e don't provide bonus spells past 5th level. I suggest you do the same for sake of conformity.

'findel
 
Last edited:

Crioni

First Post
I believe your premise for the class is too strong; concentrating on multiple spells is very potent, especially at no resource cost other than the spell slot itself. If you absolutely want to go this way, I would suggest being able to conjure specific spirits, each one allowing you to concentrate on one specific spell for "free". (and thus allowing a certain control on possible broken combinations)

I think this is one of those points where I will want to see it in action before I make major changes . . . Shaman have no spell slot recovery tool, and essentially no other base class features aside from the BA cantrips. It is definitely on the strong side, but I'm leery of throwing too many handicaps on it without doing some playtesting first.

Also, the shaman eventually gains the ability to cast damage cantrips as bonus action, but some archetypes don't have access to any damage-dealing cantrip (unless create bondfire deals damage? I can't recall).

All Shaman get the Spirit Strike cantrip, so they will have at least one. I might throw a couple of damage/utility cantrips like Acid Splash and Frostbite into the general list, though.

Pick proficiency in saving throws between INT + WIS or WIS + CHA, but don't offer a choice (especially not INT + CHA). If you want, adding proficiency in INT or CHA saves at later stage in the class is a solution for the INT+WIS+CHA save proficiencies.

Why would I want to avoid Int+Cha? I was under the impression that Int was a weaker save, whereas Cha and Wis were fairly strong.

I also suggest narrowing your focus on different archetypes, like two or three. Right now it is too much to provide feedback without getting heavily involved.

Finally, "standard" caster archetypes in 5e don't provide bonus spells past 5th level. I suggest you do the same for sake of conformity.

Part of my design for the class was to leave the base class a little more bare . . . This allows for the types of spirits being communed with to have a greater impact on gameplay. I totally get that 5 subclasses is a lot for someone to give feedback on, so I certainly would have no issue with someone just looking at one or two of them. As far as spells from the subclass, I limited the base Shaman spell list for the flavor reason I mentioned. The goal was to do something a little different.

Thank you for the feedback! I'll definitely keep giving the concentration mechanic some thought.
 

Gamerbug94

Villager
Going to review based on reading the class, though my opinions may change if I actually experience the abilities in play.

Base Class: Change saves to either Wis/Cha or Wis/Int. Cha and Int are both two of the "Lesser" saves, so having two of those is a little underwhelming. While I don't think multiple concentration is TOO bad, I think limiting it to certain spells or combinations of spells would help eliminate the fringe cases where a broken combination could be found. Also, cantrips as a bonus action is pretty strong, outright doubling the damage output of the class over other spellcasters, but I think it can work. Starting with 5 cantrips and building up to 7 is a bit much, I'd cull that down toa start of 2 or 3 with a max of 5 or 6, including Spirit Strike.

Bonespeaker: Branch spells fit the "necromantic" theme, no complaints here. Though I'd say for this and all other subclasses limit the Subclass spells to 5th level and lower to keep to the standard set by other classes. Gravewalker and Channel the Lost both seem fine and fit the flavor. Bone Shield is crazy damage reduction over the course of a fight, consider maybe changing this to a set amount of Temp HP? Whispers of the Damned is a good ribbon, though I think changing out Intimidation for History or some other knowledge skill might make a little more thematic sense. Greeting Death as a Friend is a good ability, and causing death upon destruction is a good trade-off for making the already extremely tanky subclass even MORE tanky (50% more hitpoints, combined with resistance AND Bone Shield? Oh my.) Eternal Communion is something you need to be careful with, changing subclass to undead is very damaging, as many healing spells do not effect creatures of the Undead type. I'd also reconsider the ability to reform after death, changing it to revival spells not needing material costs when uses on this character ala Zealot.

Cityspeaker: The spell selection and level 1 abilities all seem good and flavorful for the "Street Level" Shaman, maybe also cause an int save prof to change to Cha save prof for this subclass (if you make Wis/Int the standard for the class) or grant Cha saves in addition to Wis/Int at a higher level. Tangled Streets might be stepping on the Ranger's toes a bit, but I don't think it's unfitting for the subclass, maybe limit the benefits to cities you are intimately familiar with? Mob Mentality needs a little clarification, maybe "When one enemy is within 10 feet of you and another enemy moves within 10 feet you can...", to eliminate the case of you moving into the appropriate range on your turn and then using your reaction to move further. Voice of the Masses needs a usage limit, Max Damage isnt something to be scoffed at, if you want an unlimited usage version perhaps dice re-rolling is better than always-on max. Risen Metropolis I love this ability, though the need to roll a Nat 20 for it to function is strange, maybe just allow it as an action on your turn once per day?

Lifespeaker: Good spell list, Good level 1 abilities. Again, consider the "Change int save to cha save prof" ability, if you go that route. Spring to Life is odd to say the least, advantage on death saves is fine, but moving while unconscious seems very odd to me. Lively Rituals now I dont know if I'm mistaken, but I believe you already CAN cast ritual spells while moving. The half-time portion is great though! Dance til you Drop maybe allow this to be an Insight check rather than just generic Wisdom? or a Wisdom Save? also it being a Stun effect on a Natural 1 is out of tune with other abilities in the game, as it's the only effect where a natural 1 on a save/check means something. Beacon of Life is insane healing! Better than a Life Cleric! Maybe limit this to half or quarter of max hit dice per usage?

Stringspeaker: Good spell selection. Force damage is a pretty strong damage type, but I don't think it's too strong to give out on a cantrip level. Voodoo could use a bit of wording change, maybe "you give the ally resistance to the triggering damage, and the attacker takes an equal amount of damage that cannot be reduced in any way". Channel the Weave is great, and I love it, maybe make the ability increase in accuracy depending on if you just have a name vs a piece of the creature/item. Bad Juju is a good ability, but perhaps a bit strong. Maybe change it to Disadvantage on saves using the ability they have check disadvantage on, rather than ALL saves. Voodoo Doll is good, though i'd maybe change it to "You control their movement and actions on their next turn" instead of just one or the other? Might be a bit too strong in that case...dunno. Mojo Advantage on attack rolls for all attacks made by all allies? Wow! Consider making this a full action ability. String Theory is crazy strong and opens up a lot of abuse cases. Have your party gang up on a friend to reduce them to 1 or 0, then swap that allies HP with the big bad, proceed to one shot him.

Wildspeaker: Very druid-like spell list, I like it. Damage choices are nice on the cantrip, maybe add Fire too to complete the "natural" type trifecta? Savage Spirits is fine, though I don't think the extra damage is really necessary. Channel Nature all good abilities, though "Base AC" is a bit confusing, just change it to "+2 to AC when wearing no armor or Light armor" if thats your intention, or "Your AC cannot be lower than 12" if that was your intention. Animal Preference fine ribbon. Permanent Savagery choice of permanent effect of the list is great, having 2 effects at a time is even greater! Cycle of Life Good ability, though maybe clarify if you mean the damage the attack actually dealt, or the damage the creature took (in cases where this is a different number). Worldrage love the ability, almost like a new spell! I might change it to half-damage and no restrain on a save rather than what it is, but I'm not sure on that one!


Overall I like the class, though it needs a few changes to bring it in line with typical class standards, and maybe reduce the power of some of the standout abilities.
 

Crioni

First Post
Gamerbug94,

Wow! Thank you for the thorough feedback! Balancing and wording are always my biggest concerns, and I'm going to go through and look at implementing some of your suggestions. I'd love to get your impressions once I've done so! Thanks!

Couple of specific notes:
  • I really wanted to allow the subclasses to influence high level spellcasting, and that's one point I'm going to be pretty stubborn on. It's definitely a departure from the norm, but that was intentional.
  • Totally forgot about Undead not receiving healing! That does make that aspect of Eternal Communion pretty unworkable.
  • String Theory is something I knew would be problematic, but I desperately want to keep in some form . . . I'll have to tinker with it further to try to come up with something balanced.
 
Last edited:

Crioni

First Post
Okay! Went through and reviewed pretty much everything you suggested. I'll try to highlight my changes here so that you know what to look for if you go back in to examine it.

Base Class: Change saves to either Wis/Cha or Wis/Int. Cha and Int are both two of the "Lesser" saves, so having two of those is a little underwhelming. While I don't think multiple concentration is TOO bad, I think limiting it to certain spells or combinations of spells would help eliminate the fringe cases where a broken combination could be found. Also, cantrips as a bonus action is pretty strong, outright doubling the damage output of the class over other spellcasters, but I think it can work. Starting with 5 cantrips and building up to 7 is a bit much, I'd cull that down toa start of 2 or 3 with a max of 5 or 6, including Spirit Strike.

Changed it to Wis/Cha saves, as you both suggested. I'd been under the impression that Cha was one of the stronger ones. Int is an outlier with Stringspeakers, so the other two make more sense. I added halved movement speed to Many Minds, and no movement speed on Myriad Minds. Dropped the number of cantrips by one, as I do want them to have access to a decent spread of those. Not super opposed to dropping that by one more, though. Also added Acid Splash and Frostbite to the general cantrip list, just for a little variety.

Bonespeaker: Branch spells fit the "necromantic" theme, no complaints here. Though I'd say for this and all other subclasses limit the Subclass spells to 5th level and lower to keep to the standard set by other classes. Gravewalker and Channel the Lost both seem fine and fit the flavor. Bone Shield is crazy damage reduction over the course of a fight, consider maybe changing this to a set amount of Temp HP? Whispers of the Damned is a good ribbon, though I think changing out Intimidation for History or some other knowledge skill might make a little more thematic sense. Greeting Death as a Friend is a good ability, and causing death upon destruction is a good trade-off for making the already extremely tanky subclass even MORE tanky (50% more hitpoints, combined with resistance AND Bone Shield? Oh my.) Eternal Communion is something you need to be careful with, changing subclass to undead is very damaging, as many healing spells do not effect creatures of the Undead type. I'd also reconsider the ability to reform after death, changing it to revival spells not needing material costs when uses on this character ala Zealot.

As I said in my first response, I'm set on keeping subclass spells through 9th level spells. Just a flavor and gameplay aspect that I really want in the class. I changed Boneshield to THP, and swapped History for Intimidation on Whispers of the Damned. Changed Eternal Communion along the lines you suggested . . . Adopting the Zealot feature is a good middle ground on that.

Cityspeaker: The spell selection and level 1 abilities all seem good and flavorful for the "Street Level" Shaman, maybe also cause an int save prof to change to Cha save prof for this subclass (if you make Wis/Int the standard for the class) or grant Cha saves in addition to Wis/Int at a higher level. Tangled Streets might be stepping on the Ranger's toes a bit, but I don't think it's unfitting for the subclass, maybe limit the benefits to cities you are intimately familiar with? Mob Mentality needs a little clarification, maybe "When one enemy is within 10 feet of you and another enemy moves within 10 feet you can...", to eliminate the case of you moving into the appropriate range on your turn and then using your reaction to move further. Voice of the Masses needs a usage limit, Max Damage isnt something to be scoffed at, if you want an unlimited usage version perhaps dice re-rolling is better than always-on max. Risen Metropolis I love this ability, though the need to roll a Nat 20 for it to function is strange, maybe just allow it as an action on your turn once per day?

Clarified Mob Mentality, and went with dice rerolls on Voice of the Masses. My original goal with Risen Metropolis was for it to be a bit more random, as if the city was comign to your aid unbidden. But I think you're right that it's just going to be wonky and unreliable, so it's a once-per-long-rest action now.

Lifespeaker: Good spell list, Good level 1 abilities. Again, consider the "Change int save to cha save prof" ability, if you go that route. Spring to Life is odd to say the least, advantage on death saves is fine, but moving while unconscious seems very odd to me. Lively Rituals now I dont know if I'm mistaken, but I believe you already CAN cast ritual spells while moving. The half-time portion is great though! Dance til you Drop maybe allow this to be an Insight check rather than just generic Wisdom? or a Wisdom Save? also it being a Stun effect on a Natural 1 is out of tune with other abilities in the game, as it's the only effect where a natural 1 on a save/check means something. Beacon of Life is insane healing! Better than a Life Cleric! Maybe limit this to half or quarter of max hit dice per usage?

Spring to Life was my bad . . . I'd forgotten exactly how death saving throws worked. Changed it so it gives healing on a success instead of advantage, and the movement keys off their reaction. Does that seem workable/balanced at this point? Changed Dance Till You Drop as you suggested. And I nerfed Beacon of Life down to half their hit dice, once per long rest. That one I would have no problem tuning up or down as needed . . . the exact number of hit dice used is fairly arbitrary.

Stringspeaker: Good spell selection. Force damage is a pretty strong damage type, but I don't think it's too strong to give out on a cantrip level. Voodoo could use a bit of wording change, maybe "you give the ally resistance to the triggering damage, and the attacker takes an equal amount of damage that cannot be reduced in any way". Channel the Weave is great, and I love it, maybe make the ability increase in accuracy depending on if you just have a name vs a piece of the creature/item. Bad Juju is a good ability, but perhaps a bit strong. Maybe change it to Disadvantage on saves using the ability they have check disadvantage on, rather than ALL saves. Voodoo Doll is good, though i'd maybe change it to "You control their movement and actions on their next turn" instead of just one or the other? Might be a bit too strong in that case...dunno. Mojo Advantage on attack rolls for all attacks made by all allies? Wow! Consider making this a full action ability. String Theory is crazy strong and opens up a lot of abuse cases. Have your party gang up on a friend to reduce them to 1 or 0, then swap that allies HP with the big bad, proceed to one shot him.

Okay, this was the tough one. I tried to shift the wording on Voodoo, so I'd love to know if it's clearer now. Changed Bad Juju as you suggested. Voodoo doll will definitely be simpler as a straight up one-turn Dominate, so I figure we can try that for now and see how it works (if I ever get a chance to playtest that!). Made Mojo only target a single ally, and made it advantage on their next attack. Shifted String Theory considerably. Instead of trying to hold onto hit point switching, which is definitely going to be way too open to abuse, I made it so that the Voodoo feautre can be essentially unlimited for one round. Thoughts on that?

Wildspeaker: Very druid-like spell list, I like it. Damage choices are nice on the cantrip, maybe add Fire too to complete the "natural" type trifecta? Savage Spirits is fine, though I don't think the extra damage is really necessary. Channel Nature all good abilities, though "Base AC" is a bit confusing, just change it to "+2 to AC when wearing no armor or Light armor" if thats your intention, or "Your AC cannot be lower than 12" if that was your intention. Animal Preference fine ribbon. Permanent Savagery choice of permanent effect of the list is great, having 2 effects at a time is even greater! Cycle of Life Good ability, though maybe clarify if you mean the damage the attack actually dealt, or the damage the creature took (in cases where this is a different number). Worldrage love the ability, almost like a new spell! I might change it to half-damage and no restrain on a save rather than what it is, but I'm not sure on that one!

Fixed the wording on the "Base AC" bit. Clarified wording on Cycle of Life . . . I want it to be fairly reliable, so I made it damage dealt, not damage taken.

If you find the time to revisit this, I'd love to hear what you think of the changes! Thanks again for the feedback!
 
Last edited:

Remove ads

Top