Honest Evaluation of the Digital Pre Alpha stuff?

I was hoping if someone who attended the D+D Experience could give an honest appraisal of what they liked/disliked about some of the Digital tools that WotC is gearing up for. In particular I am interested in the character creator, the character visualization aid, and the online tabletop applications. Also----just how well are all of these applications linked to each other? If I select a two handed axe as my primary weapon on the character creator---is this selection represented with the visualization aid?---stuff like that...
Anyone?
Again---please give me both strengths and weaknesses...
 

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From memory, and I got there a few minutes after it started. Queen D, The Universe and Xath could answer better. That said;

Character representations will be approximate. So, yeah, if you're wielding a 2-handed axe, it'll probably show that. But if the one in the tool has hatchet-shaped blades and yours has crescent shaped ones, you're probably outta luck. In other words, they'll try to have a lot of combinations, but it's not going to be infinite. At a guess, I'd say something like what you can do in NWN out of the box, without the customization tools to make your own specific models. Remember that this is a server-based app and service.

The online tabletop app seemed really rough. One of the devs stopped by and answered questions afterwards, and I mentioned that it seemed like a butt-load of mousing around to the point where a DM would have to have Popeye like forearms for a long session. He indicated that they hadn't even started usability testing, so hopefully a lot of work will go into that. As it was, though it was pre-alpha it was being run by people intimately familiar with the game, and it seemed a bit slow and awkward.

I'm also a little concerned about the underlying architecture. At one point they placed a pre-fab tower tile down in a wilderness area, and showed the characters moving through the terrain into the encounter area. But it was fugly; the tower terrain didn't match the area terrain, there were seams all over the place, etc. Someone brought that up, and the response was along the lines of yeah, that's ugly, we hope to have a fix for it. One would have hoped that the base engine would have already taken that into account.

At first glance, it appeared less polished than the stuff RPGXplorer was showing off at GenCon last year. But it's much more ambitious; maybe too much so. Especially with no Z-Axis support making the engine support a completely fluid 3d environment may be overkill.
 

Rodrigo Istalindir said:
At first glance, it appeared less polished than the stuff RPGXplorer was showing off at GenCon last year. But it's much more ambitious; maybe too much so. Especially with no Z-Axis support making the engine support a completely fluid 3d environment may be overkill.
Oh dear. Although I'm a supporter of the DI, word of mouth about the VTT is almost universally bad. I think predictions that it really won't be ready for prime-time until next year are going to turn out to be correct.
 


At the demos, I asked a bunch of questions about it because I'm geeky like that.

Here is what I gleaned from their answers:

First my impression. It looks like the guys designing this are really working very hard to get this ready for launch in June. Are they going to have a good product? Yes. Are they going to have an AWESOME product? That's debatable.

Okay, there are two parts of the DDI (D&D Insider) that interact with each other. The character Creator (an electronic / downloadable character sheet) and the Rules Database. When you apply stuff to your character it can be "validated" against the rules database. This can also be turned off so that you can create characters that don't necessarily follow all the rules. In addition, apparently you will have the option to create your own rules and have the character sheet validate against those. The character sheet can be used offline. Offline it does NO validation but once you connect again it can validate against the Rules Database.

The Character Visualizer is not directly tied to the Character Creator for "rules" integration. For example you can create a Dragonborn Wizard with a staff in the Visualizer and have a 3D virtual miniature even though your character sheet says that you're a dwarf fighter with a waraxe. So there is no "real" integration between the two. However, you can use the Visualizer to create the image for your character and add it to the character sheet.

The Character Creator, Rules Database and the Character Visualizer seem to be further along in development than the game table, though WotC did not demo the Rules Database or the Character Creator.

The Virtual Game Table (VGT) is still very much in development and what we saw was definitely pre-Alpha. However, what I saw was still good.

There will be an electronic Map Designer tool, pretty much very similar to the current one that exists for use with Dungeon Tiles. On this Map Designer the DM can create the layout for his dungeon of doom (tm) using tiles like Dungeon Tiles. The final map can be imported into the Virtual Game table. At this time the DM can only use the pre-designed tiles that come with the DDI. I also saw maps from the Fantastic Locations products so it seems like any WotC map will probably be available. From a conversation with Didier Monin, the DM will be able to export this image as a bitmap and manipulate it on a "paint" program. However, as of DDXP they still do not have a way to import external images back into the Map Designer.

The VGT can import the maps from the Map Designer into the Virtual Game Table at which time you have a table top you can play on. You can also design maps directly on the VGT by simply selecting tiles (2D or 3D) and placing them where you want. You can assign light sources and place them at a location or on a creature. You can hide and unhide things from the players view. You can place virtual "post-it" notes that the players can access and you can design adventures, complete with text, images, etc., and have them ready at your mouse-click.

The VGT comes with a customizable die-roller. Many of the functions of the VGT can be assigned to shortcut keys. The DM can interactively expand the VGT with new tiles as things happen or draw them in with a paint like interface. The paint interface does not currently do bitmap fills so don't expect to crudely draw a dungeon and have it look like the Dungeon Tiles. The tiles are flippable so that you can have things like pit traps, etc. appear in front of the characters.

The VGT is not interactive and does not "enforce" any rules. So a character can move off the edge of a dungeon or even stand in the same spot as another character or object. It is left to the DM to adjudicate the rules. Movement on the VGT will show a distance marker. So you will always know how far your character has moved. The view on the VGT can be set to top down or isometric if you prefer to play that way. One thing that is important to note is that the VGT is exactly like a Table Top. So for example, if a player would normally be able to see something on the tabletop, the view of the character is the same. So you won't have different visual restrictions based on race or fog of war. If it can be seen with the current lighting, every player will be able to see it. The bad part of that is fairly obvious. However, the good part is that because you can see exactly what everyone else sees, if someone is using 3D virtual minis, everyone sees the same; even if they don't own that particular mini.

If you have a character that has multiple weapons you would create multiple poses of the virtual miniature and save them separately. When you are using your longsword you use image1. When you swap to the longbow you upload image2, etc.

Only the minis provided by DDI and those created with the Character Visualizer will be available on the VGT. Though you can create tokens of any size with any image you like. There is no way, currently, to import 3D virtual minis from other sources.

The VGT will have a capability for text chat as well as voice chat. You should even be able to establish "secret" communications between anyone at the table. And you can "mute" any conversation.

The VGT did crash several times during the Demos, remember that this is still pre-alpha. However, the recovery time was excellent (less than a minute in each case I saw). You can also save the adventure locally and go back to the same location after a crash.

There are a lot of things that the VGT will probably not provide at launch. But the list of features that they are talking about adding is long and impressive.

IMO, the really big advantage of the VGT is that it has an isometric view that is EASY to work with and it has D&D specific virtual minis. There are other tools out there that have some of the same features and even more but I have not seen one yet that did the isometric view as cleanly as the VGT. And I have not seen one that does 3D miniatures with D&D specific characteristics.

All in all I was pleased with what I saw. Will this be the ultimate online game table at launch? I doubt it, and the fact that it is not customizable enough makes me worry a little bit about it. However, they still have some time and there are still a lot of details that they need to hammer out.

IMO there are four things that would make this table totally awesome and hard to beat by any measure. They are: Import of ANY map for use on an isometric view, import of 3D miniatures/objects from other sources, the capability to place things on a vertical axis to the tabletop, and most important of all stability.

I'm afraid that the first three of those things will not be there at launch. Even as a pre-alpha demo the crashes were minimal and the recovery was fast. I think that they will have a much more stable product at launch so I'm not too worried about stability. If the other three things were there within 6-8 months from launch I would be so excited I would probably subscribe for a year At this time I'm going to have a wait and see approach and maybe subscribe for 3 months and see how it goes.

What I'm taking into consideration is that the DDI is not limited to the VGT. Having all the D&D books and Dungeon and Dragon rules content incorporated directly into the Rules Database is a bigger selling point than the VGT. To me the big selling point of the VGT is the 3D view. If WotC allows expandability by the users (Maps, 3D objects/creatures) then they will have an AWESOME product. If they decide to keep that aspect too close to the vest, they will have a good product. Sometimes these business decisions amount to cutting off their nose to spite their face. If you're going to make a Virtual Game Table, then make the best damn VGT. Don't make something that could be awesome and then nerf its functionality because you are afraid that some people will print out maps with images of your Dungeon Tiles.
 
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D'karr said:
What I'm taking into consideration is that the DDI is not limited to the VGT. Having all the D&D books and Dungeon and Dragon rules content incorporated directly into the Rules Database is a bigger selling point than the VGT.

I was not at the DDXP--but as I've been using a VTT to run games for the last year--I feel qualified to comment. The above quote is the most spot on thing I've seen said about DDI. The GameTable looks like trash to me. I say that because every impression I get is that they are focusing on what it looks like, instead of if it's USEFUL.

Chat Logs (w/ Screenshots) of my VTT group

I recently started posting our chatlogs as a lot of my players like to read over what happened, and then I started adding some screenshots of the scenes as well. Even if you just want to see some screenshots of a VTT in use, check it out. The DM client, plus six player clients totaled $90 USD, combined. We own this software--we never pay another dime for it. I make maps in Dundjinni, I make tokens/pogs with TokenTool. There are several other VTTs out there with similar functionality. (Battlegrounds RPG & MapTool are probably the most popular besides Fantasy Grounds.) The problem going for GameTable is that it simply cannot be worth the price they've put on it. ($120 USD per year--PER PERSON!?) My group plays every weekend, so the "passes" would total $12 USD/month; it would be cheaper for them to subscribe!

And that's why I quoted the above--I am interested in the DDI package--subscriptions to Dungeon and Dragon and the Rules Database. My players are not. The only thing they would use with regularity is the GameTable--and we pooled up $90 a year ago and took care of that! ($12.85 USD each, by the way.) The above post also nailed it by saying that without z-axis support--who cares if you have 3D? We love our VTT and have no intentions of using GameTable. Just look at Fantasy Grounds, Battlegrounds RPG, and MapTool. Then look at GameTable--at $120/year, minimum.

I think WotC is vastly overestimating the value of the product they are making. DMs are going to have a use for DDI, players are not, and since my players were able to pay for their VTT application forever for $12.85 USD, it's not looking good for the GameTable. (MapTool is FREE, and at the moment looks easier to manipulate than GT.)
 

Thanks again. The price is a bit steep (and I am bummed about the lack of a z axis---though that would seem to be some daunting rules and coding work). Basically---I will be willing to pay for the total package if there is a very high degree of smooth integration between the various tools. An excellent overall package will entice me into fully embracing 4E. Otherwise I will soldier on with clunky PCgen, aging CMP datasets and 3.5 for the foreseeable future.
 


iwarrior-poet said:
Thanks again. The price is a bit steep

Yeah but the price isn't just for the game table, it included Dragon, Dungeon (they say about 160 pages of content a month), complete access to all the rules text of every 4th Ed D&D book WotC publishes via the Rules Database (if you own the physical book or not). You get the visualiser, character builder (again with full rules access).

Check http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4OFQt3aQTo and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT8dMw7RIH4
 

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