Hope?

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I understand each of the words individually, but when they are put in that order, they confuse me.

Let me be more specific: I see a glimmer of hope because one of the people directly responsible for the new edition of the game I adore has proclaimed that player-oriented (as opposed to PC oriented) challenges are fun for him. therefore, it is reasonable, I think, to hope that such challenges get more than just a one sentence lip service in the DMG and are engineered into the system. This is because 3E pretty much ignored the idea save for tactical situations and the character build.

Doug: I took his mention of sodoku to mean that he wasn't interested in giving the players math problems to solve, but rather wanted to embed player-focused challenges like puzzles and riddles in the adventure. This is always how we did it. Since gaming is essentially metagaming, it is okay to have stuff that focuses on the players instead of their characters so long as it is well integrated and doesn't pull the players out of the situation anymore than their character sheet does.

I've always loved the Challenge of CHampions adventures in Dungeon magazine..., the last one IMO was my favourite, as it incorporated both player AND character knowledge into them in the form of hints through skill checks. Good stuff all around.

 

[Reaper Steve]

You don't think cynics are funny? Go watch good stand-up comedy. It's usually cynical.

Absolutely! It's one of my strong points.
I just wanted Reynard to know I was trying to be funny, not trying to be an @$$.

 

[Greg K]

Just in case, 4e does somehow manage to win me over, I hope the OP is wrong and they don't officialy reintroduce puzzles that test players. The use of those puzzles never made sense to me, because my goal is to play a character different from myself.

 

[RFisher]

There is always hope, ... if for no other reason then it is the one thing no one has figured out how to kill yet.
-JMS

Only because it doesn't have stuff worth taking.

 

[Reynard]

Just in case, 4e does somehow manage to win me over, I hope the OP is wrong and they don't officialy reintroduce puzzles that test players. The use of those puzzles never made sense to me, because my goal is to play a character different from myself.

That seems like an odd place to draw the line, since the player is also doing the roleplaying and running the tacticals and deciding on how to best use their long term resources. Why is the player figuring out a riddle or a puzzle suddenly not role-playing?

 

[Stormtalon]

Only because it doesn't have stuff worth taking.

That and because hope floats -- no matter how many weights you tie around its ankles.

Believe me, I've TRIED.

 

[Korgoth]

From Dave Noonan's Blog:



If anything in 3E really drove me batty -- aside from the minis/battlemat problem -- it was the loss of the "challenge the players" playstyle in favor of a "challenge the build" playstyle.

Is it possible that 4E might be trying to bring back a little bit of that "1E feel"? And if so, is it enough?

I know I shouldn't get my hopes up, but damn do I want to like 4E, but still "play 1E".

I fear that he's probably going in the exact opposite direction than we would want (this is Noonan, who seems to talk as much about WoW in his blog as D&D). But I'd love to be wrong about that.

Personally, I love the "solve the Sudoku" stuff. And puzzles, ciphers, riddles and science problems.

The dungeon isn't there to challenge my character. My character doesn't exist. The dungeon is there to challenge me (and my fellow players). It's a game - a test of cleverness and risk management.

So bring on the Sudoku! At least that gets me involved in the game. Unlike simply rolling a D20 over and over and over and over.

 

[dmccoy1693]

That and because hope floats

What exactly does a hope float taste like? Obviously hope is a liquid or else it would be a hope ala mode.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Yes, I meant maths (I'm a Brit, sue me) as in the stuff at school (1 stopped all that at 16), so over 10 years ago now. I'm surprised I was met with such a sarky comment about having to do more of it. I'm done with it now, thanks.

Thanks for sticking up for me, Simia. This theatre/english graduate will take his dunce's cap off now.

Anyway, those demons and devils, eh?

Sorry, the details between maths, mathematics or mathematical science and what ever else sometimes escape me, as English isn't my native language. In German, "Mathematik" or "Mathe" all mean the same...

But back to our regularly scheduled topic, which is Hope.

 

[Celebrim]

That seems like an odd place to draw the line, since the player is also doing the roleplaying and running the tacticals and deciding on how to best use their long term resources. Why is the player figuring out a riddle or a puzzle suddenly not role-playing?

The end result of resolving everything mechanically by examining the character's abilities is removing the player from the game to the point that a computer script might as well be playing the character for you.