The monk's distinctive feature is unarmed combat and unarmored defenses. It says so right in the class description. That is what the monk should be doing. Aside from the Beast barbarian, every other martial uses weapons and armor.
(+) Hopes for The Monk
- Thread starter doctorbadwolf
- Start date
The monk's distinctive feature is unarmed combat and unarmored defenses. It says so right in the class description. That is what the monk should be doing. Aside from the Beast barbarian, every other martial uses weapons and armor.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
And yet it can use weapons and even has a whole subclass dedicated to them, and fighters and anyone else with fighting styles can take the unarmed fighting style.
Leaning that hard into unarmed and Unarmored combat as the class ID in 2014 was a mistake that has actively limited the monk and very one else in foolish, unnecessary, ways.
Also let's not forget the Barbarian also has unarmored defenses.
Every class can use simple weapons. The monk occupies the specific fantasy niche of unarmed and unarmored combat. If a player wants a martial that uses weapons and armor, well, there are the fighter, barbarian, ranger, paladin, and rogue classes.
I don't see the point of criticizing a class for not handling something its not intended to do. Like, is it a monk problem that it can't wild shape into an animal and fight?
I don't see the point of criticizing a class for not handling something its not intended to do. Like, is it a monk problem that it can't wild shape into an animal and fight?
Incenjucar
Legend
Monks are defined as being able to use unarmed or simple weapons enhanced with ki powers to make them as effective as a fully armed and armored warrior. Barbarians are defined as using rage to the same effect. Being unarmed is one of their options, but its not their core.
The thing is, you can't even keep up with weapon users as an unarmed monk. If you don't pick up a magic weapon at some point, you're actually worse off than a monk without one. So it doesn't feel like the Monk's niche is well supported to begin with.
Heck, Tasha's has an Unarmed Fighting Style that lets you do more damage than a 1st level Monk, so it's not even like that's a unique niche anyways.
Heck, Tasha's has an Unarmed Fighting Style that lets you do more damage than a 1st level Monk, so it's not even like that's a unique niche anyways.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
working on my mystic based on ideas here.
I took Unarmored defense and rewrote it and renamed it. (Paraphrased from memory)
Patient Defense
You can use Dex or Str for AC, + wisdom if Unarmored, and you can use a shield regardless.
As a bonus action on your turn, you can take the Dodge Action. You can spend 1 focus die when you do so, to gain temporary hit points equal to your focus die result plus your wisdom modifier.
(I had changed the class to a d10 HD, but with this and another change I might change it back)
Next, I took martial arts and rewrote it.
[Mostly the normal stuff, minus any “no armor” requirements, the MA die becomes your focus die, which starts at 1d6 (d8 if fighting totally unarmed) and upgrades at all the same levels. I stole the unarmed strike rules from the UA playtest, and gave the monk the ability to use two functions of the unarmed strike with one attack, once per turn.
The description makes clear that your unarmed strike can be truly unarmed, or it can be a pommel strike, hit with the flat of a blade, part of a 1-2 combo with a weapon, or whatever other quick, light, precise, strike you can think of.
Flurry of Blows. As a bonus action on your turn, when you use the attack action or use an action to spend focus dice, you can make a single unarmed strike as a bonus action, or spend 1 ki to gain 1 extra unarmed strike per turn until the end of your next turn, including as part of the same bonus action used to activate this ability.
Then I added to level 1 Focused Breath
You gain a number of focus dice equal to your mystic level plus your wisdom modifier. You regain these when you complete a long rest, or when you spend ten minutes in meditation, which can be done as part of any rest.
You learn 4 Focus Techniques of your choice from the list at the end of the class description, and gain an additional technique at every new mystic level. You can also learn new techniques during your adventures, which can include techniques from other classes, so long as you meet the requirements and can find someone to teach you or a manual of techniques to study. You must prepare techniques by spending part of your long rest moving through the training forms of that discipline, and you may prepare a number equal to half your mystic level plus your wisdom modifier.
Then at level 2, you gain Slow fall, Focus Regimens, and Deflect Attacks. 3 is subclass, 4 is feat,
5 is extra attack, one of two special meditations (stunning strikes and powerful strikes, medituations being techniques you do outside of combat that give you an ability for an hour to several hours), and the “magical attacks” feature.
Level 6 is Deflect Magic, upgrading Delfect attacks to include spell attacks.
I took Unarmored defense and rewrote it and renamed it. (Paraphrased from memory)
Patient Defense
You can use Dex or Str for AC, + wisdom if Unarmored, and you can use a shield regardless.
As a bonus action on your turn, you can take the Dodge Action. You can spend 1 focus die when you do so, to gain temporary hit points equal to your focus die result plus your wisdom modifier.
(I had changed the class to a d10 HD, but with this and another change I might change it back)
Next, I took martial arts and rewrote it.
[Mostly the normal stuff, minus any “no armor” requirements, the MA die becomes your focus die, which starts at 1d6 (d8 if fighting totally unarmed) and upgrades at all the same levels. I stole the unarmed strike rules from the UA playtest, and gave the monk the ability to use two functions of the unarmed strike with one attack, once per turn.
The description makes clear that your unarmed strike can be truly unarmed, or it can be a pommel strike, hit with the flat of a blade, part of a 1-2 combo with a weapon, or whatever other quick, light, precise, strike you can think of.
Flurry of Blows. As a bonus action on your turn, when you use the attack action or use an action to spend focus dice, you can make a single unarmed strike as a bonus action, or spend 1 ki to gain 1 extra unarmed strike per turn until the end of your next turn, including as part of the same bonus action used to activate this ability.
Then I added to level 1 Focused Breath
You gain a number of focus dice equal to your mystic level plus your wisdom modifier. You regain these when you complete a long rest, or when you spend ten minutes in meditation, which can be done as part of any rest.
You learn 4 Focus Techniques of your choice from the list at the end of the class description, and gain an additional technique at every new mystic level. You can also learn new techniques during your adventures, which can include techniques from other classes, so long as you meet the requirements and can find someone to teach you or a manual of techniques to study. You must prepare techniques by spending part of your long rest moving through the training forms of that discipline, and you may prepare a number equal to half your mystic level plus your wisdom modifier.
Then at level 2, you gain Slow fall, Focus Regimens, and Deflect Attacks. 3 is subclass, 4 is feat,
5 is extra attack, one of two special meditations (stunning strikes and powerful strikes, medituations being techniques you do outside of combat that give you an ability for an hour to several hours), and the “magical attacks” feature.
Level 6 is Deflect Magic, upgrading Delfect attacks to include spell attacks.
Gorck
Prince of Dorkness
In my head canon, Monks primarily use quick strikes with their fists (and other body parts), and therefore are focused on DEX-based Unarmed Strikes. Although I personally am not interested in it, I wouldn't mind seeing a Barbarian subclass the primarily focuses on STR-based Unarmed Strikes to pound and smash enemies into a bloody pulp. Maybe a modification of the Path of the Battlerager from SCAG (minus the Dwarf requirement and spiked armor) or the Path of the Juggernaut from TCSR.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Yeah tbh my version of the monk, the mystic (which is about as bad a name as monk on a “what is this class” level but with less baggage), currently can use strength or Dex for AC, but I’ll probably go back to Dex focus. Str to AC is just weird.
But a brawler Barbarian sounds very fun. As it is right now you could make a good one with a fighter/Barbarian build, but pushing extra attack back on a purely martial build is painful. Still, totem Barbarian BM fighter with tavern brawler would be insanely fun to play.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
What might actually be interesting would be to choose between step of the wind (and Unarmored movement), and a strength based “feats of might” utility ability.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
What about the ability to move up to the number of feet listed in your Unarmored movement feature any time you use a reaction, as part of the same reaction?
mellored
Legend
Maybe something like.
When targeted, but before dice are rolled, you can use your reaction to move 5', potentially having the attack miss.
If you expend ki, you can increase the distance to your unarmored movement.
And at some point your going to avoid an attack by running up a wall, and that would be great.
FitzTheRuke
Legend
I want a subclass that uses weapons. And does it well (and interesting!)
Corinnguard
Hero
Something like the Way of the Kensai, but better, I take it? Monk: Way of the Kensei - DND 5th Edition
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I like this, but by making it also work when you use a reaction, you can OA and then move closer to where the target ends up, for instance.
Either way it’s a very “you’re the mobile striker” move.
And I love the idea of escaping attack by running up a wall lol
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I also remembered last night that my Aethernaut class started as an alternate Monk-as-swordmage.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I really think that a perfect monk build would be to combine spirit and martial arts dice into spirit dice, and your unarmed strikes deal spirit dice damage, starting at d6 (d8 if fully unarmed with no shield), making Unarmored a choice, maybe a level 1 choice that focuses you more on speed and finesse, or strength and ability to move creatures around and stuff, and wisdom and defense/support of some kind.
Then, make about a dozen spirit features to choose from at level 2, 5, 11, 13,16, 18, build flurry into martial arts, step off the wind and slow fall into Unarmored movement, and patient defense and the basic atwill part of deflect [attacks] into Unarmored defense. Spirit Techniques would include immediate stuff and stuff that lasts for longer, and you learn maybe 9 ever, keeping things fairly simple.
Then take most of the later level abilities and make them chosen from a list similar to warlock invocations.
In the mystic, I’ve gone with more of an infusion type deal, where you know more than you are using in a day and can change every day, representing focusing your mind and body on a set form and style even though you know several.
For a more direct monk update I’d probably go more invocation where it’s a set list that is always active.
Then, make about a dozen spirit features to choose from at level 2, 5, 11, 13,16, 18, build flurry into martial arts, step off the wind and slow fall into Unarmored movement, and patient defense and the basic atwill part of deflect [attacks] into Unarmored defense. Spirit Techniques would include immediate stuff and stuff that lasts for longer, and you learn maybe 9 ever, keeping things fairly simple.
Then take most of the later level abilities and make them chosen from a list similar to warlock invocations.
In the mystic, I’ve gone with more of an infusion type deal, where you know more than you are using in a day and can change every day, representing focusing your mind and body on a set form and style even though you know several.
For a more direct monk update I’d probably go more invocation where it’s a set list that is always active.
FitzTheRuke
Legend
Looks like we gotta wait for June.
ZetaShift
Eternity will pass before I stop playing Monks
dies
In the meantime, I reworked the Monk class awhile ago not only to make the class function properly, but also make them stronger-- relatively so to casters-- and giving them more options to choose from to make sure they aren't completely bland, ala the Warlock's Invocation table.
Gonna compile it in a doc but some ideas I had were:
In the meantime, I reworked the Monk class awhile ago not only to make the class function properly, but also make them stronger-- relatively so to casters-- and giving them more options to choose from to make sure they aren't completely bland, ala the Warlock's Invocation table.
Gonna compile it in a doc but some ideas I had were:
- D10 hit die
- Proficiency in improvised weapons
- Reworking Stunning Strike to make it far more healthy for the class
- Giving more ki, equal to Level + 1 + WIS modifier
- MA die starts at a d4 and ends at d8
- Ki Features scale throughout the game, allowing the Monk essentially get a resourceless FoB by level 11 and a way to attack three times as a bonus action
- Fighting Styles
- Changing the level 20 capstone completely, allowing you to choose from two options.
- The invocation table equivalent will have a stance system to modify how they play, such as an Archer's stance to properly support ranged monks, etc.
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