Hordes of the Abyss: Q&A

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Razz!

apologies for taking so long to reply, I am a bit busy at the moment.

True, in such a case, probably a Huge greataxe would be more suitable.

Absolutely. Or, I wonder would it actually be better wielding four single weapons?

Battleaxe is 1d8, upgraded twice I'm pretty sure it goes to 2d6, then 3d6.

Indeed, I was confusing myself with greataxe.

True, I was merely trying to stay to the core klurichir as presented in FF without delving too far off base. But compared to a Molydeus and Balor's weapons, a +3 unholy wounding battleaxe (or greataxe) sounds about right for it, especially as a CR 25 (I don't agree with the CR 17 it was given, taking all its abilities into account even in its 3.0 version).

Certainly there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason behind the weapons...but then again it is the Abyss.

Really? I probably missed that in the MM or something. Where'd you find that one?

I thought you were asking for opinions.

I hope so, the klurichir would suck if they downgraded it though. It'll lose its flavor as the "demon that even gives balors nightmares."

Yes but if they had retained the CR 25 it would have been the "demon that even gives Demogorgon nightmares!"

 

[ruleslawyer]

Not according to Wies/Hickman. They created the world. I'll stick with their vision of it.

Just because the authors say so doesn't mean that their five-headed chromatic dragon doesn't bear suspicious resemblance to a pre-existing iconic figure in D&D.

 

[Erik Mona]

Erik, if you are still around, what are the chances of seeing some of the lords not covered (except in the appendix) in future Demonomicon articles? The ones coming out not are great, I just can't help but feeling the stuff has mostly been covered before(because it has).

Probably pretty decent, given infinite time.

I doubt we'll see anything more on Chemosh, though.

--Erik

 

[JustaPlayer]

Yes but if they had retained the CR 25 it would have been the "demon that even gives Demogorgon nightmares!"

Maawhaaaahaaaaahaaaaa!

 

[James Jacobs]

James, I have some questions to you about the Demonlords and Demonomicon:

1) I know it much too early to ask...but do you have any concepts about who the next Demonomicon "star" will be ??
2) I was wondering if Haagenti will ever appear in Demonomicon ?? Do you think he would be able to cast spells as a wizard - like Orcus or Mephistofeles ??

1) It is, alas, too early to ask about who the next Demonomicon "star" will be. What I CAN say is that I've got the next 3 picked out and approved by the Dragon editors.

2) Haagenti will probably not appear in a Demonomicon. At least, not any time soon. Those looking for more information on him might want to go check out Green Ronin's "Book of Fiends," though...

 

[Tinker Gnome]

It wasn't so much seperate as it didn't have a cosmology before it was part of the Wheel. There was never any real suggestion of a seperate DL cosmology outside of some very vague notions in DL Adventures, which listed a few names of places but did not establish anything concrete. Later in 1e they were incorporated into the Great Wheel and those names were used in subsequent sources as names of divine domains as I recall, not much of a retcon if any retcon at all, the 3e DL retcon being more invasive on some levels, but the novels have always been vague enough to not really make one difference or another. It's debateable.

I could also just default to the notion of... Psst, the scholars on Krynn just didn't know what they were talking about, calling -every- evil outer plane 'the Abyss'. j/k







Chemosh is listed in the relevant 2e material (OHG, p180) as having his divine domain in the Abyss. The plane doesn't match his alignment, sure, but while most deities choose to carve out their home in a plane that does match them, it's not a strict requirement. Chemosh for whatever reason chose this route (perhaps to seperate himself from Takhisis in Baator?).

Sure you can say that, but officially Krynn is not a part of the Great Wheel, and was never meant to be either. The quotes I provided were from one of the game designers who works on the DL books.

 

[sckeener]

1) It is, alas, too early to ask about who the next Demonomicon "star" will be. What I CAN say is that I've got the next 3 picked out and approved by the Dragon editors.

Thank you.....I was wondering how I was going to keep up all my interest in fiendish delights when that cursed glowing orb reached its zenith....a pox on Summer...

(that is right...I'm stuck working...fiendish thoughts are all that get me through the day)

seriously, I am so glad to hear that three more "star"s have been approved. I was surprised so much FC1 web material was coming out on WotC's website. I figured they would want do some initial hype type stuff but then would settle down into spiking the sales...a perfect time would be right around Halloween. I hope we have some wonderful fiendish and undead lore coming to us in Dragon or Dungeon during that month.

 

[Ripzerai]

Sure you can say that, but officially Krynn is not a part of the Great Wheel, and was never meant to be either. The quotes I provided were from one of the game designers who works on the DL books.

But not one of the game designers who works on the Great Wheel. That's the conundrum, isn't it? The DL designers are responsible for Dragonlance, and can only determine what goes on in the Dragonlance campaign. They can't determine what is or isn't part of the Great Wheel.

That is, they can keep the Wheel out of Dragonlance, but they can't keep Dragonlance out of the Wheel. The core cosmology might well have a version of Krynn in it without the Krynn described in the d20 materials being part of the core cosmology.

Krynn was part of the core cosmology for two editions of the game, and works perfectly well in it. The thoughtless attempt to excise it for the sake of purity does great damage to a campaign setting that has evolved to be partly dependent on it - for example, it means removing or revising entire layers of the Abyss. Why should that happen? Why eviscerate a campaign setting - the Great Wheel's Abyss - just to keep out a campaign setting that was, for over a decade, intimately intertwined with it?

Dragonlance is almost entirely about the world of Krynn, and the cosmology it's set in doesn't change it to any significant degree. Taking all references to Krynn out of the core cosmology does change that setting significantly, however.

Tracy Hickman didn't intend for Krynn to exist in a common "multiverse" with the other D&D worlds? Fine. But prominent designers of the D&D multiverse did intend to include Krynn - and their vision for the campaigns they developed is just as worthy as Hickmans' vision for the campaign he developed.

 

[EricNoah]

Just wanted to chime in and say I'm enjoying the book. It's got some good "old stuff" (for an old Planescape fan) and some good new stuff. The least useful bits, to me personally, are the stats for the demon lords -- like stats for gods, not particularly useful for me.

I still feel like there has been no product that really focused on "cults" ala a demon cult -- something that is not like a cleric, something that's maybe more limited in scope (maybe an NPC class) that has a limited repertoire of themed schticks as well as some social/criminal benefits. I'm thinking of a social outcast who finds a demon to teach him a trick or two, uses it and his new confidence to wrangle a few followers, and they make mischief in a town. That sort of thing. Maybe there was something in BoVD that I missed as I haven't read that one thoroughly or recently.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Dragonlance authors and Planescape authors disagree on whether it's in the great wheel? Interesting. I'll go with the guys writing about the specific setting, myself.

Also, saying that keeping DL separate from the Great Wheel does great damage to either setting is pretty ridiculous, IMO.

EDIT: Niceness.