Hordes of the Abyss: Q&A

[Shade]

It's interesting that the water demon is on the list, but the other elemental demons are not. I wonder if they were all orginally there, and were cut for space, or if "water demon" is a placeholder for a different demon that didn't make the cut.

 

[Mr.Black]

CR 1: mane
CR 2: abyssal maw, abyssal skulker, dretch, nashrou, quasit
CR 3: abyssal ravager, maurezhi (5-6 HD), rutterkin
CR 4: abyssal evicerator, ekolid, guecubu, maurezh (7-8 HD), skulvyn
CR 5: bar-lgura, jovoc, maurezhi (9-10 HD), juvenile nabassu, skurchur, water demon
CR 6: artaaglith, babau, broodswarm, maurezhi (11-12 HD), uridezu
CR 7: armanite, arrow demon, succubus, maurezhi (14-14 HD), zovvur
CR 8: dybbuk, palrethee, maurezhi (15-16 HD), shadow demon, yochol
CR 9: abyssal drake, bulezu, vrock, maurezhi (17-18 HD)
CR 10: alkilith, bebilith, cerebrilith, chasme, maurezhi (19-20 HD)
CR 11: hezrou, retriever, wastrilith
CR 12: ghour, lilitu
CR 13: glabrezu, jarilith
CR 14: blood fiend, kelvezu, nalfeshnee
CR 15: nabassu, sibriex
CR 16: goristro
CR 17: klurichir, marilith, sorrowsworn
CR 18: deathdrinker, myrmyxicus
CR 19: molydeus
CR 20; balor

that covers crs of creatures in book and other resources.

Impressive! It looks like we have a variety of demons to terrorize at all levels. I particularly like the revised CRs.

Alkilith I thought looks like more of a CR 8. It only has 82 hp and weak physical attacks, although its' enveration at will and teleport can make it a nasty long ranged monster. It also has the chance to summon a Hezrou. Blasphemy for everyone!

Jarilith stays at CR 13. I think it should have been dropped to a CR 12 with its limited variety of attacks, but it's still a good CR.

Jovoc stay at CR 5. I think it could be CR 3 or 4. It deals very little damage. However, masses of these guys at higher levels can be interesting.

The 20hd Maurezhi...whoa! While it has an average of 108 hp (128 with improved toughness) this thing has a +29 with it's bite and a +27 with its claws. It also has a 30 AC. Pretty good for CR 10!

Wastrilith is another terror at CR 11. Blasphemy at 15 level is pretty scary and so is its' ability to summon Elder Elementals (and dispel any Protection from Evil spells on the PCs).

Myrxmicus makes an acceptable CR 18, although I'd have to see it in action.

Klurichir is THE toughest demon at CR 17.

Kelvezu at CR 14? That's a tough one. It really is a strange demon because it can deal so much damage but only has 90 hp and a +16 with its best attack. Still, it can wipe out a 14th level wizard before he even has a chance to go, which is probably its preferred tactic. I would have made it CR 13 due to its weaknesses but its equipment is so expensive that you can't really make its' CR lower because the PCs will get way too much stuff.

Any thoughts from the designers on the revision of the demon CRs?

BTW, where is the Deathdrinker from?

Overall, the vision of a demon horde is coming along nicely. I can see masses of Jovocs spearheaded by frenzied Bulezau or Murezhi. Vrocks use telekinesis from overhead to hurl a dozen weapons at a time from a distance, while arrow demons rain arrows onto the field.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Don't see a source for the Death Drinker.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there!

What Demon Lords/Princes are detailed in the book? Thanks.

 

[Sammael]

Baphomet (CR 20)
Dagon (CR 22)
Demogorgon (CR 23)
Fraz-Urb’luu (CR 21)
Graz’zt (CR 22)
Jubilex (CR 19)
Kostchtchie (CR 21)
Malcanthet (CR 21)
Obox-ob (CR 22)
Orcus (CR 22)
Pale Night (CR 21)
Pazuzu (CR 22)
Yeenoghu (CR 20)
Zuggtmoy (CR 21)

 

[jester47]

possession...

 

[qstor]

FYI My FLGS said the release date if June 13th. I'll get one after work that day

Thanks Erik for the time put into this, looking forward to it!

Mike

 

[James Jacobs]

To be honest, a few of the demons from MM2 and Fiend Folio need a little bit more work to fit their actual CR scores; the example of the klurichir's ability to summon balors is a perfect example. But for the most part, the revised CRs fairly accurately peg a demon's power level in the 3.5 rules. For recasting these demons into their new CR slots, we looked at how their hit points, AC, attack rolls, average damage, saves and special ability save DCs stacked up against average monsters in the 3.5 monster manual.

For example, in the klurichir's case, it's hit points would peg it at about CR 15, while its AC set it closer to CR 16 or 17. It's saving throw bonuses are actually fairly weak, about equal to CR 12. It's attack sequence is pretty tough, equal about to a CR 19 creature, but with its lower AC and hit points it's not going to be around as long as a CR 19 monster with 340 hit points and AC 38. Add in its vorpal attack, and even though it's kinda got a glass jaw physically, it seems to sit well at CR 17. I'd recomend giving it tanar'ri summoning powers on par with a maralith; unfortunately we just didn't have room in the book to do a more detailed revision of the creature.

 

[Shemeska]

It's interesting that the water demon is on the list, but the other elemental demons are not. I wonder if they were all orginally there, and were cut for space, or if "water demon" is a placeholder for a different demon that didn't make the cut.

*blink* Wait... what in Gehenna is a 'water demon' in the first place? That's got to be some sort of goofy placeholder. Is there actually a 'water demon' in some source I'm apparently not familiar with?

 

[BOZ]

went over to the other thread and got some questions that were missed among all the other chatter:

One of the nice things is that it does include a 'master' list of demons that have appeared in varous products including the abyssal drake of the draconomicon!

kickass! how long is this list? like as in, percentage of a page? it's in the appendix i'm assuming? that's one of the cool things that the folks around here helped contribute to.


any hints on which demon lords, besides the main 14, were given mention and further info in the book? James said something like 80 - could you get us at least a partial list when you have the time?


i'm assuming that the broodswarm, dybbuk, ekolid, guecubu, lilitu, and sibriex are new?


does the book have stats for any non-demon monsters? does the index of all printed demons have info on all Abyssal inhabitants, or just demons?


i wanted to write a Wikipedia stub for Obox-ob, but i know nothing about him other than his name. i added ones for Malcanthet and Dagon, and all the other 14 main lords already had one.

What is the deal for Obox-ob? He's the only one of the big 14 that I really know nothing about. What is he the demon lord of? What # layer of the Abyss does he live on? Give me a sentence or two, at least.

Appendix I: Lords of the Abyss, provides a breakdown of different demon lords with name, title, concerns, and layer. This includes those detailed here, as well as those mentioned in previous books, but not detailed. For example, Rhyxali is the Queen of Shadow Demons on layer 49, Shaddonon.

Good deal. Does this appendix contain the majority of the lords listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_lord_(Dungeons_&_Dragons) ? any omissions? Any new lords not on that wiki list?