Hordes of the Abyss.

[Psion]

And for the book itself, it could work. But then to hit it again in Dragon with more powerful creatures invalidating the whole concept of lower powered creatures... and to hit it AFTER the book is out...

I guess I am not syncing up with you on why this is a problem.

The MM is FULL of creatures with different power levels (wraith/dread wraith, etc.). A very accomidating feature. (And yes, if you use the avatar concept, it's perfectly possible you will use both versions.)

As far as the Dragon goes, I see the Demonomicon articles as being in the same vein as Ecology articles. I don't see those as being redundant with the MM so much as a more detailed expose.

 

[Mr.Black]

As for the worries that non-demon lords are too powerful... remember again that CR is just a number. In any event, Appendix III in Hordes of the Abyss addresses this issue by revising the CRs for the Monster Manual II and Fiend Folio demons. This list puts the balor at the top at CR 20, the molydeus next at CR 19 (although he's a TOUGH CR 19), and the other demons down from there.

Sir, I salute you! Revising the CRs of the former demons from MMII and Fiend Folio is just an awesome idea that helps to keep those demons around as usable monsters. Maybe WOTC will follow this trend in the future to eventually revise all the questionable CRs in the MMII.

I don't worry too much about the demons being too tough. Many times the PCs have the resources and abilities to handle just about anything. Besides, we've seen the worst: Drowned, Adamantite Horrors, Storm elementals, Elemental Weirds, etc. They can't be worse than these guys right? Anyway, if they are, I say so be it. "Fight like a demon" actually means something now.

Klurichir is CR 17 and Myrmixicus is CR 18? Nice! It's little crazy that a Klurichir can summon two Balors, but I don't think they'd ever do this for fear of Balor beatdown.


BTW James or Erik, could you inform the people at Wizards that the Balor's damage with it's longsword is wrong in the MM3.5. It doesn't take into account the Balor's strength. Thanks.

 

[Razz]

Ahhh, we scared them away! No more news, till JoeG gets home at least. LOL

 

[Shade]

Klurichir is CR 17 and Myrmixicus is CR 18? Nice! It's little crazy that a Klurichir can summon two Balors, but I don't think they'd ever do this for fear of Balor beatdown.

That's funny, because...

If balors do have nightmares, they can probably be attributed to the klurichirs.

Of course, they might be afraid that they'll show up late for work.

 

[Razz]

Actually you mean it's originally posted by Fiend Folio not MMII

 

[Psion]

Of course, they might be afraid that they'll show up late for work.

 

[Shade]

Actually you mean it's originally posted by Fiend Folio not MMII

D'oh! And as someone who regularly sings the praises of the FF, you'd think I'd remember that.

 

[Psion]

D'oh! And as someone who regularly sings the praises of the FF, you'd think I'd remember that.

It must be reflexive. You are subconsciously trying to disown the Kulichir.

 

[Arnwyn]

the former would be a (not-so-funny) joke.

I know this is what I'm worried about.

In any case, I'm very disappointed, but I'll live (though I do think Joe's comments make little sense are are completely out of line). I already have the (higher, proper ) stats in the Demonomicon articles, or the BoVD, or the ToH, so I can conceivably use the stats in FC1 as others have suggested - off-plane lords.

Lame, but no biggie.

(And you had me at "Molydeus".)

 

[Mr.Black]

That's funny, because...



Of course, they might be afraid that they'll show up late for work.

I can just imagine that:

A mighty balor stands before the howling horde of demons.
Balor: "Now surge forth! Destroy and devour all in your path! We are HATRED! WE-"
A ringing noise comes from nowhere. All the demons are silent.
Marilith to the Balor: "I think that's you."
Balor: "I know that's me." He pulls out a fiery cell phone and looks at the number. "Oh great, its Klurichir again."
Marilith: "Klurichir? Isn't he a CR 17?"
Balor: (sighs). "Yea, I don't know what I was thinking when I gave that guy my phone number." He pushes the message box.
Klurichir: "Dude! Where are you!? Listen, it's been sooooo long since we've hung out and I have these adventurers that I'd like you to meet. I think it would be really COOL if you could drop by-." CLICK! The Balor puts his phone away in disgust.
Marilith: "Hmm...are you going to call him back?"
Balor: "@#$! no!"