Hordes of the Abyss.
- Thread starter JoeGKushner
- Start date
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
Zarnam said:Whooops, sorry, didn't notice the snake head bit, my bad
Yes Joe, I'd be soooo very much obliged if you could check those boys for me
If you have some time though, you could also check for Verin, Lynkhab, Pale Night and Alvarez
Thanks a lot !!
I know off the top of my head that Pale Night is there. She's seen as a 'mother' figure but mother of what varies depending on whose telling the tale. Doesn't have her own plane but has a part of one of the other demon lord's plane that is left alone for what reasons no one knows.
JustaPlayer
First Post
The nerfing is a real issue with me. I just canceled my pre-order.
I don't have my drafts in front of me and I didn't write the demon lord section in any event, but I'm pretty sure that the turnover had the implication that the weaker stats were for demon lords outside their home plane. Looking over the printed book, it looks like that's not the case, but I should add that there's a section on advancing the demon lords into epic levels for folks who are interested in playing that kind of challenge, and we certainly plan to continue with the higher-CR demon lords in Dragon (unless someone at WotC tells us not to).
In my campaign, the roughly CR 20 demon lords in "Hordes of the Abyss" would reflect the most powerful aspects of the demon lords outside their home layers, where they would be significantly more powerful. That said, these guys are considerably powerful. Demogorgon, for example, has 499 hit points and 27 Hit Dice, which makes him pretty damn tough. I'd argue that these stats make Demogorgon more useful to 90% of D&D campaigns, since far fewer players seem to run epic level games than seem to run psionics, and psionics fans are a tiny subset of D&D players.
If you are foolish enough to challenge Demogorgon in his lair in Gaping Maw (like, say, at the end of the Savage Tide Adventure Path), I think you can assume that he will be a good deal tougher than this. If, on the other hand, you're using him as the "big bad" in a traditional D&D campaign, a CR 30 stat block isn't entirely helpful.
--Erik Mona
In my campaign, the roughly CR 20 demon lords in "Hordes of the Abyss" would reflect the most powerful aspects of the demon lords outside their home layers, where they would be significantly more powerful. That said, these guys are considerably powerful. Demogorgon, for example, has 499 hit points and 27 Hit Dice, which makes him pretty damn tough. I'd argue that these stats make Demogorgon more useful to 90% of D&D campaigns, since far fewer players seem to run epic level games than seem to run psionics, and psionics fans are a tiny subset of D&D players.
If you are foolish enough to challenge Demogorgon in his lair in Gaping Maw (like, say, at the end of the Savage Tide Adventure Path), I think you can assume that he will be a good deal tougher than this. If, on the other hand, you're using him as the "big bad" in a traditional D&D campaign, a CR 30 stat block isn't entirely helpful.
--Erik Mona
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
?
Why? If that's the way the official book on the demon lords is going, why would the official magazine confuse matters by not following a simliar formula, especially when latter on in your own post you note
?
Either pick the higher level CR and go with it or make it useful for the 'traditional D&D campaign'.
jester47
First Post
TOC us Joe! Then we can get over the nerfing and see what other things are in there.
I could care less about demon lord stats. The way I see it, demon lords are quasi divine. I would say divine rank 6. I would say (like for Orcus) that you have three incarnation variants of a demon lord -
Aspect - the aspect stats
Avatar - The stats presented in Hordes of the abyss
Incarnation - the stats presented in Dragon and (like in the case of Orcus) Tome of Horrors
True Being - the stats above but with divine rank 6.
The other thing is, if you don't want the demon lord to be killable, don't use the stats, or just say that killing a demon lord is like killing an concept, it will disappear for a while but eventually return. The Demons under the demon lords know this, and so do not rebel.
Or whatever.
I am looking forward to this book for the non demon lord demons, and assorted locations and rules for using demons.
I could care less about demon lord stats. The way I see it, demon lords are quasi divine. I would say divine rank 6. I would say (like for Orcus) that you have three incarnation variants of a demon lord -
Aspect - the aspect stats
Avatar - The stats presented in Hordes of the abyss
Incarnation - the stats presented in Dragon and (like in the case of Orcus) Tome of Horrors
True Being - the stats above but with divine rank 6.
The other thing is, if you don't want the demon lord to be killable, don't use the stats, or just say that killing a demon lord is like killing an concept, it will disappear for a while but eventually return. The Demons under the demon lords know this, and so do not rebel.
Or whatever.
I am looking forward to this book for the non demon lord demons, and assorted locations and rules for using demons.
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