Hordes of the Abyss.

[arntof]

* Advance lord’s HD by an amount appropriate for your campaign’s needs. The lord BAB, saves, skills, feats, ability scores should increase as an Outsider.
* CR increase by 1 for every HD added.
* Add “epic” to DR requirement.
* New SR = CR+13
* Ability scores all increase 2 for every 5HD added.
* Gain Spell-like abilities (at will): Blasphemy (or Word of Chaos for obyrith.), Plane Shift, Shapechan ge, Unholy Aura. Feel free to add more, but remember not to over do it.
* Increase Caster level for Spell-like abilities by 1 for every 2 HD added. Remember this can overpower certain abilities.
* Feel free to add one or two new special actions or special qualities. eg.) Fraz-Urb’luu might gain Mordenkainen’s Disjunction by touch. Kostchtchie might gain a Cold breath weapon.

Fighting Demon Lords:
These high Challenge Ratings are based on the demon lords’ abilities and also supported by couple of assumptions:
(1) Characters are most likely to face a demon lords on its home layers of the Abyss.
(2) A demon lords should never be encountered alone.

 

[yipwyg]

All of this talk about how low the demon lords CR has gotten me thinking about how I would handle this in my campaign. I am basing my decision based on devils though not demons. The reason being that in my new campaign I am working on, devils are a factor. I believe due to the low CR demon lords, that the Arch-devil's will have the same treatment.

Here it goes

Back in the 2nd edition days it was mentioned that there was a group of 8 pit fiends called The Dark Eight. These pit fiends were the most powerful ones in hell. I think that in 2nd edition that they got max hit points and some other things. In 3.5 they provide methods to advance the base creature. So in my campaign the Dark Eight would have the following.

Huge Size, 54 HD (648 hit points), CR 38

This gives me a base line for when I advance the Arch Devils. I think that Asmodeous should be more powerful than the Dark Eight, maybe not by much but he should be of higher CR.

This should also be done for Demon Princes, they control planes they should be the most powerful things on the plane besides Gods.

 

[ruleslawyer]

yipwig: If you want your work done for you, you may wish to check out the following site:

http://community.dicefreaks.com/

The pdf-format Gates of Hell has detailed writeups (including stat blocks) for the Dark Eight, the Dukes of Hell, the archdevils (who are sort of a "middle tier" between the Dukes of Hell and Lords of the Nine) and the Lords of the Nine. The Dark Eight hover around CR 35 or so, the Dukes of Hell in the high 30s, the archdevils from about 40-60, and the LotN in the 60s.

 

[Shade]

12 posts to lockdown...

 

[yipwyg]

WOW!!! just checked on some of that book at dicefreaks. Why are they not selling that?

 

[JustaPlayer]

WOW!!! just checked on some of that book at dicefreaks. Why are they not selling that?

It's chalked full of IP. It's one thing for fans to do write ups on IP, another entirely to sell it.

Edit: errrrr, PI.

 

[Shemeska]

yipwig: If you want your work done for you, you may wish to check out the following site:

Outside of the fact that this really isn't a thread to be pimping this in it's probably worth noting that it also deviates considerably from the standard histories and identities of the various archfiends in a number of cases. The flavor isn't bad, I can't say that, but it's not at all on the same page on a good many things with how it tries to reinvent some concepts, changes names of creatures, renames species of fiends, and some other fundamental alterations from the canonical vision of the lower planes.

Overall it's inspired homebrew, some of which I appreciate and some of which I don't care for, but when it discusses the Abyss or the 9 Hells of Baator it's not really talking about the same lower planes as I often am given how far it alters some things. Keep in mind guys on DF, I think it's a bit of an awkward disservice, and a bit misleading, to push it on half the planar threads that have been popping up lately.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Outside of the fact that this really isn't a thread to be pimping this in it's probably worth noting that it also deviates considerably from the standard histories and identities of the various archfiends in a number of cases. The flavor isn't bad, I can't say that, but it's not at all on the same page on a good many things with how it tries to reinvent some concepts, changes names of creatures, renames species of fiends, and some other fundamental alterations from the canonical vision of the lower planes.

Overall it's inspired homebrew, some of which I appreciate, some of which I don't care for, but it's not talking about the same lower planes as I often am given how far it alters some things. Keep in mind guys on DF, I think it's a bit of an awkward disservice to push it on half the planar threads that have been popping lately.

I find it ironic that you think I'm "pimping" DF, Shemeska, especially if you read my other posts on this topic. I'm simply trying to sidestep the usual complaining that goes on about a lack of archfiend stats of x CR, and to help out a poster who's looking for stats in a particular CR range . My point is that if people want stats at higher CRs than in HoTA, there are places to get them, including BoVD, the Demonomicon, and DF.

As for "canon": I think, as I've said before, that any notion of "canon" sits on pretty unstable grounds. People who go on about "canon" tend to pick their own version of precedent and label it thusly. Talking about what the powers of the archfiends "historically" are involves trying to reconcile a lot of contradictory information, AND to try to try to treat as hard game information what is presented as nothing more than rumor and conjecture. I understand that you have set yourself up as a guardian of what you've decided constitutes the "history" and "canon" of the lower planes and archfiends, but you're talking about a body of information that's changed several times over two previous editions and includes everything from archfiend stats at the roughly CR 15-equivalent range (Graz'zt and Pazrael in Planes of Chaos) to some "greater than gods" allusions (Dragon 223).

 

[Shemeska]

I find it ironic that you think I'm "pimping" DF, Shemeska, especially if you read my other posts on this topic.

It's mostly bleed over from some guy (who was banned on DF) who was obnoxiously spamming the WotC boards with the same link for a while recently (and only spamming the link, without actually contributing to the threads in question). Regardless, back to the thread itself.

 

[ruleslawyer]

IMy point is that if people want stats at higher CRs than in HoTA, there are places to get them, including BoVD, the Demonomicon, and DF.

IOW, can we talk about something on this thread other than stats for demon lords? HotA certainly must have some other content. Spells? Possession rules? New Abyssal layers?