Hordes of the Abyss.

[Razz]

And I think that claiming that these tools are anything new or special at all. Presenting them as a solution or even a selling point is bogus.

Every single creature in every single book in 3.X was scaleable and could be advanced. The tools are in the PHD and MM. Claiming that these is some new special otions for the demonlords is just wrong, and the 1/3 page in FC1 just seems like a filler.

See MM? Great, I would have never thought of that myself.

How to calculate CR/SR/CL? Well, that's handy but also nothing that really justifies claiming to be something new to make scalebale demonlords, could be done just as well without this clues. Also these clues aren't really the best. 1 HD = 1 CR? Will quickly make them too weak for their CR. Same with the CL progressing. Making it 1 for every 2 HD doesn't make the abilities overpowered, it will make them useless, as they will quickly become unable to beat any SR at all (not even their own).

+2 ability points for every 5 HD? Why? What about the +1 for every 4 HD that's standard in D&D and followed by every single creature? Seems a little like "hm, we just need annother point, any point" and also important: Is this supposed to replace the +1 every 4 HD or to be added on top on this?

Where'd you get this info? Do you have the book? I've been asking forever what the page says about advancing these guys and no answer from anyone as of yet.

 

[Sammael]

The advancement was definitely posted in one of the three threads on FC1.

 

[Delta]

It means "recognized by WotC as a D&D product." Any other meaning, honestly, is one the fans put on it.

I'd like to hear that from a WOTC source. If the fans all magically misunderstand how that mark is being used, then it indicates nonstandard usage of the word, and it should be clarified.

 

[JustaPlayer]

Psion, at this point I'm not talking about the power levels of the lords in and of themselves. If they truely wanted them to be scaleable to epic, which I can understand, they should have thrown us a couple epic bones. A new spell, power, feat or 2 or 3.

 

[Gold Roger]

I'd like to hear that from a WOTC source. If the fans all magically misunderstand how that mark is being used, then it indicates nonstandard usage of the word, and it should be clarified.

All fans? Speak for yourself, we have no demographics to back that up.

I have no problem understanding the officiallity that way. And unless mearls or eric drop in, mosferatu is the best person to talk about it anyway (as a freelancer that has by now often worked for wizards).

 

[Seeten]

On a quick note, this will irk players far more than DM's, because players cannot arbitrarily advance Demon Lords, only watch in horror as by default cr 22 demogorgons show up.

For DM's, who cares? You control your game. For players? Any new canon liable to be adopted by all DM's because it has a WotC stamp on it? Much more frustrating, and all a player can do is vote with his feet, ie, cut off his nose to spite his face, and stop rping with his group.

Many DM's are religious about using all WotC material 'as is'. We all know this.

 

[Staffan]

They're right here:

http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2859923&postcount=40

Thank you!

 

[Uder]

On a quick note, this will irk players far more than DM's, because players cannot arbitrarily advance Demon Lords, only watch in horror as by default cr 22 demogorgons show up.

Rules Lawyers and other players that memorize the books have bigger things to worry about in my game

 

[Razz]

The advancement was definitely posted in one of the three threads on FC1.

Could you per chance direct me to the thread?

 

[GQuail]

Could you per chance direct me to the thread?

I don't have search function active (the Great Board Erasure leaves me still a measly registered user) but I know for a fact it was this thread, as I replied to itL and a key phrase that might find it was that they all gained Blasphemy at will, "(or Word of Chaos for obyrith.)" A Google search turns up this thread and the sentence but it's not linking to the right post: so it looks like you're going to have to look the old fashioned way.