Hordes of the Abyss.

[JustaPlayer]

If the could somehow be some stuff on Dukes of Hell and such, that would be cool. I know it wouldn't be a Demonomicon at that point though.

 

[BOZ]

we'll see whether or not such a thing is even needed after FC2 comes out!

can you wait 6 more months?

 

[Rystil Arden]

we'll see whether or not such a thing is even needed after FC2 comes out!

can you wait 6 more months?

I think there is a high probability that people who want to see the reasonably CR-ed dukes of Hell (with on their home plane stats like we see in the awesome Demonomicon articles) will still be waiting after FC2. That said, it is possible that WotC will surprise me and allow the higher CRs, but methinks that the high sales from FC1 that should be attributed to the authors' excellent excellent work despite the demon lord CRs may be attributed to success because of the CRs, with us messageboard folks as outliers. That said, as long as WotC is convinced that FC2 is a must-print book, I'll still be happy

 

[JohnRTroy]

maybe you could ask him to put Demodragon in Dungeon, the way Warduke has.

Personally, I think Demodragon was just Venger transmorgrifying Demogorgon with two dragons.

Heh, Toon Disney should have that episode on in maybe a few months. ;-)

 

[Evilhalfling]

I think there is a high probability that people who want to see the reasonably CR-ed dukes of Hell (with on their home plane stats like we see in the awesome Demonomicon articles) will still be waiting after FC2. That said, it is possible that WotC will surprise me and allow the higher CRs, but methinks that the high sales from FC1 that should be attributed to the authors' excellent excellent work despite the demon lord CRs may be attributed to success because of the CRs, with us messageboard folks as outliers. That said, as long as WotC is convinced that FC2 is a must-print book, I'll still be happy

I would agree with this, and will add my hopes for a FC3 - featuring Yugoloths, (gelreths and night hags as minor chapters) I will buy the this one, take a careful look at the 2nd, and send more requests for the third.

 

[Shade]

I think there is a high probability that people who want to see the reasonably CR-ed dukes of Hell (with on their home plane stats like we see in the awesome Demonomicon articles) will still be waiting after FC2. That said, it is possible that WotC will surprise me and allow the higher CRs, but methinks that the high sales from FC1 that should be attributed to the authors' excellent excellent work despite the demon lord CRs may be attributed to success because of the CRs, with us messageboard folks as outliers. That said, as long as WotC is convinced that FC2 is a must-print book, I'll still be happy

Keep in mind that FC2 is probably already finished, so most likely it will use the same format.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Keep in mind that FC2 is probably already finished, so most likely it will use the same format.

Yup, that's what I figure. And even if it wasn't already finished, I'd think they would stick to the same format either for consistency's sake or because a few ENWorlders aren't enough to change the minds of those behind the curtains, even if Erik and James have been quite gracious in listening to all our comments here.

 

[Ripzerai]

I'd think they would stick to the same format

Since different teams wrote the two books, that assumes there was some sort of editorial oversight demanding consistency. I don't know if that's a valid assumption.

You can't make Bel weaker than a pit fiend the way you can make Juiblex weaker than a balor (arguing that he's not going to face anything tougher than an alkilith), so there's definitely going to be a narrower range if they insist on making Asmodeus CR 23. Put Glasya and Martinet into the equation (at minimum), as well as paeliryons, and I think they're going to have to set the bar higher.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Since different teams wrote the two books, that assumes there was some sort of editorial oversight demanding consistency. I don't know if that's a valid assumption.

You can't make Bel weaker than a pit fiend the way you can make Juiblex weaker than a balor (arguing that he's not going to face anything tougher than an alkilith), so there's definitely going to be a narrower range if they insist on making Asmodeus CR 23. Put Glasya and Martinet into the equation (at minimum), as well as paeliryons, and I think they're going to have to set the bar higher.

I think the idea is to claim that the stats in the book represent an off-the-plane version of the entity involved though. James has been kind enough to tell us that several times for the demon lords.

That said--you needn't argue with me that the CR is too weak to make any sense, particularly with Baator. I'm on your side (You may have seen my Juiblex vs Balor / Marilith analysis earlier upthread).

As for the different teams, we know that James likes to write the CRs higher for the demonomicon articles higher than the ones in FC1, so it would seem that the decision for the CRs came from a level higher. Admittedly, it is true that it is possible that the higher level is not involved with FC2, but I'd doubt it. WotC is nothing if not consistent when they decide on new policies (like the new PrC format with the extra tidbits).

 

[Ripzerai]

As for the different teams, we know that James likes to write the CRs higher for the demonomicon articles higher than the ones in FC1, so it would seem that the decision for the CRs came from a level higher. Admittedly, it is true that it is possible that the higher level is not involved with FC2, but I'd doubt it. WotC is nothing if not consistent when they decide on new policies (like the new PrC format with the extra tidbits).

It seems that the "aspects" idea was James' and Erik's idea, and the editors took it out.

To be clear, you really think they're going to make Bel the Pit Fiend weaker than a pit fiend?