Hordes of the Abyss.

[JoeGKushner]

It's quite easy to avoid confusion, IMO.

Anything it says about Lolth in a brown or blue book is core. Anything it says about Lolth in an off-white book is FR.

As long as folks don't assume a correlation or an interconnection, there's no problem.

SO I shouldn't use the yochlol from this book despite the many apperances these 'handmaidens' make in the FR fiction line?

 

[Razz]

Bah they rewrote the Possession Rules again!? It was done before in Fiend Folio as demon PrC. I hope it's similar to the BoVD. Too many different rules for possession is going to confuse people.

I noticed a lot of it is reprinted from BoVD. While I don't mind the updated monsters from BoVD, seeing reprinted spells from BoVD is rather lame.

And NO NEW PRESTIGE CLASSES?! Awww!!! WTH?! I feel there just wasn't enough demon-type or demon-hunting PrC. Lame, super lame!

I have a feeling half of this is BoVD revised or something.

What do they say about advancing the demon lords? Can you tell us what they are?

 

[Mouseferatu]

SO I shouldn't use the yochlol from this book despite the many apperances these 'handmaidens' make in the FR fiction line?

I didn't say you couldn't make connections. I said one shouldn't assume an interconnection.

But then, I was never bothered by the "Is Takhisis Tiamat or isn't she?" deal, either. I'm quite happy with the idea that the D&D worlds are, for the most part, seperate and distinct.

 

[I'm A Banana]

This book presents the base Outsider stats.

But once I start adding class levels, this stuff goes through the epic roof.

Though, honestly, I think this is just a good case to be made for a revamp of the epic rules....

 

[RichGreen]

Hi,

Joe -- thanks for posting your unfinished review. I'm not too bothered by the demon prince CR scandal, so I'm really looking forward to this book!

Cheers


Richard

 

[BryonD]

Thanks Joe.

Honestly, it sounds like a decent book. Maybe my dreams of another Draconomicon have gone down in flames, but it still sounds like it will be a worthwhile purchase. Which is what WotC wants to hear, right? (besides, it isn't like anyone else is putting up a fight for my RPG dollar these days)

Seriously, it does sound like it will be a good book.

 

[Mr.Black]

Thanks for the review Joe, really interesting stuff on the new types of demons and the status of the demon lords.

1. Could you post the CRs of the non-unique demons?

2. In the back there is supposed to be a CR revision appendix of the demons from Fiend Folio and MM II. Any chance you could post the CRs of the Klurichir, Myrmixicus, Alkilith, Kelvezu, Jarilith, and Jovoc?

Thank you so very much.

 

[Beowolf]

this is just an idea to all thoses who dont like the epic cr demons and such, but just cause your pcs arnt strong enoung to take on a demon lord by themselves dosent mean it cant be done and that the stats for the deamon are useless. pcs can get help from other higher level charachters and monsters, or mabye some sort of special magic item that will greatly help defeating the demon or limiting some of its most deadly powers. who ever said that pcs cant find some celestials willing to help them kill a demon lord? sure you cant take him on cause your group of 4 18th lvl pcs dont stand a chance but what about a group of 4 18th lvl pcs , an assortment of higherlevel npcs, some top notch celestials, a metalic wyrm or two and a holy artifact from the local grand temple? demon lords never fight alone they got their own retuine to fight along side them. pcs just have to think the same way, cant beat him one on one but you can when you take him on with your own army.

sure the combat and stats will be a nightmare but epic already does that anyway

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I take it there's no mention of the Abbot-Dolor or whatever that race of Demons that Grazz't was supposed to be?

Even though I'm sure it was only mentioned in the Gord novels...

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I remember the real reason why Balors feared the Molydeus was because the Molydeus sort of had some sort of "Diplomatic Immunity" across the Abyss.