Horizon Walker

[AuraSeer]

Hi,
The Sage advice answer, would be nice.

Here it is, with the Sage's reply in bold:

I have a question about the "Horizon Walker" prestige class in the 3.5 DMG. Specifically, I'm confused by the Shifting planar terrain type, which grants the ability to use Dimension Door once every 1d4 rounds.

Does this ability function on the Material Plane, or only on planes with the shifting type?

You use your "knowledge of shifting planes" to dimension door. You do not have to be on a "shifting plane" to do so.

It does say it that plane mastery works like terrain mastery, but shouldnt you at least visit the plane at least once to get the ability?
The visiting plane is more for roleplaying than anything else, but if your dont have a day or two to waste in the adventure to travel off to the plane, then you may not have the ability as soon as you level.

Technically, when you gain a level in Horizon Walker you can immediately master any terrain, even one you've never seen-- a forest elf can master the desert, and a clueless Prime can master shifting planes. Lots of other class abilities work this way. A ranger can choose dragons as his favored enemy despite never having fought one. A wizard who multiclasses to fighter can take EWP: Spiked Chain, whether he has ever held one or not.

Restrictions on that sort of thing are up to the DM. My campaign tends to be quite lenient-- we retroactively assume that the PC has done the requisite study or practice during downtime. But I think it'd be reasonable to require RP restrictions on class abilities, as long as you apply that across the board, and you allow enough downtime between adventures for all the PCs to catch up on their training.

 

[DreadArchon]

The Prime is coexistent with the planes that you DD through. It's basically already a shifting plane itself.

I agree that the other abilities need beefing to be as good as that one, though. Perhaps Feather Fall at will in addition to the other Weightless bonuses (not that you need it often when you can just DD), permanent Undetectable Alignment and immunity to alignment-targeting effects for Aligned? I'd still take the DD ability first, pretty much no matter what, but it's something.

 

[AuraSeer]

Aligned mastery may already grant immunity to alignment-targeting spells. It depends on how you interpret the line, "spells and abilities that harm those of the opposite alignment don’t affect you."

My original reading was that "opposite alignment" was in reference to that of the HW's current plane. If you're standing in Hell then you're immune to blasphemy and dictum, if you go to Elysium you're immune to holy smite, etc. That's a weak ability because it only works on aligned planes, and doesn't help at all if you try to defend Heaven from an invading fiend.

Then I wondered, what if it's intended to be stronger than that? All spells like blasphemy and holy smite harm people of "opposite alignments"-- that is, opposite the spellcaster's alignment. Making the HW completely immune to those spells would be pretty strong, but hardly overpowering, and it fits with the idea that his abilities should work the same no matter where he happens to be standing.

 

[Wolfwood2]

The Prime is coexistent with the planes that you DD through. It's basically already a shifting plane itself.

I agree that the other abilities need beefing to be as good as that one, though. Perhaps Feather Fall at will in addition to the other Weightless bonuses (not that you need it often when you can just DD), permanent Undetectable Alignment and immunity to alignment-targeting effects for Aligned? I'd still take the DD ability first, pretty much no matter what, but it's something.

I would have weightless give a fly speed everywhere at a lesser maneuverability category (say clumsy), improving to perfect when on a no gravity plane.

 

[Legildur]

Then I wondered, what if it's intended to be stronger than that? All spells like blasphemy and holy smite harm people of "opposite alignments"-- that is, opposite the spellcaster's alignment. Making the HW completely immune to those spells would be pretty strong, but hardly overpowering, and it fits with the idea that his abilities should work the same no matter where he happens to be standing.

That was how I read the ability - so Holy Smite would not affect a neutral HW at all.

 

[zlorf]

Thanks AuraSeer, thank you everyone else who contributed.
Cheers
Zlorf

Here it is, with the Sage's reply in bold:


Technically, when you gain a level in Horizon Walker you can immediately master any terrain, even one you've never seen-- a forest elf can master the desert, and a clueless Prime can master shifting planes. Lots of other class abilities work this way. A ranger can choose dragons as his favored enemy despite never having fought one. A wizard who multiclasses to fighter can take EWP: Spiked Chain, whether he has ever held one or not.

Restrictions on that sort of thing are up to the DM. My campaign tends to be quite lenient-- we retroactively assume that the PC has done the requisite study or practice during downtime. But I think it'd be reasonable to require RP restrictions on class abilities, as long as you apply that across the board, and you allow enough downtime between adventures for all the PCs to catch up on their training.

 

[newgrace]

I think the problem most DMs/players have with having to go to the planes to acquire their abilities (or other activities for class abilities) is it just doesnt fit into the game. As some of you said above, unless the DM makes the downtime, and supports the players trying to perform these tasks, it just isnt practical to spend time trying to get to another plane.

Ive ran into the same issues with DMs when trying to buy materials for a spell, or specific magic items. Because the DM sees it has hard to get or impractical for someone to sell, even if the spell material is supposedly common and/or cheap, he makes it rare and hard to find.

And its my belief that most players dont want the DM to alter the game just for 1 player, id rather stay with the story the DM has been making, and if planes arent involved, then lets not bother with any type of planar requirement for the Horizon Walker. Just assume he has done extensive study of the planes and learned to unlock certain tidbits, such as movement within a weightless environment.