Horrid Wilting

[catsclaw227]

Heh, I love you

Love is such a subjective thing....

My opinion.... Let each DM decide for his/her own self, let the players know how they'd rule it when it comes up (assuming it's a unique situation like this one) maybe give 'em a konwledge check to determine if they would "know" how it works, and if successful, let them cast something else, otherwise, they learn a valuable lesson to apply at a later time.

The game is supposed to flow.... like lava.

Catsclaw

 

[Saeviomagy]

Horrid Wilting lets you choose your targets, which is a huge benefit in a melee - you can repeatedly HW the bad guys & leave your fighters unaffected. If HW were just a burst/spread like fireball that could hurt friends it maybe wouldn't be overpowered, although not being an energy damage spell makes it far far better than a equivalent fire or other energy spell in high level play. Given these 2 advantages and how I've seen both spells work in play, I say HW is more powerful in a typical scenario.

Sounds more like "against multiple foes resistant to fire who are intermingled with my melee buddies, HW is more powerful".

Just like "against a single foe with the cold subtype who is 400ft away, meteor swarm is more powerful".

Furthermore, I don't see how the given extra restrictions (ie - HW doesn't work on fire elementals, and extends from the body of the caster) fix either imbalance.

 

[Voadam]

Maybe the spell should be revised:

Horrid Damage
Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 8, Water 8
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Targets: Living creatures, no two of which can be more than 60 ft. apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude half
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell deals 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 20d6). This spell is especially devastating to water elementals and plant creatures, which instead take 1d8 points of damage per caster level (maximum 20d8).
Arcane Material Component: A bit of sponge.


Maybe this would clarify things for everyone. Who cares if there's no explanation why water elementals and plants are more greatly affected, since physics/chemistry/real-life don't apply anyway right?

Catsclaw

That would be a fine way for you to house rule the spell to eliminate ambiguities and remove DM judgment calls. But the original poster was asking about the RAW.

 

[Scion]

But the original poster was asking about the RAW.

And he seems to have gotten his answer, the raw does not stipulate whether or not various creatures have something considered to be 'moisture'.

In most cases I would consider 'living' to be the stronger of the two necissary conditions while the other, having 'something' that could be considered 'moisture', to be the less important one. After all, if we go to some wacky form of sublimation or the like then with magic 'anything' might be 'moisture' on some level. Sortof like speaking some words and having fire erupt at the exact place you want it to 1000' away. Magic is a force to be reconned with, especially this high of a level magic.

A quote I like, 'when dealing with nuclear weapons the earth is treated as neither a solid nor even a liquid, but as a perfectly compressible gas'. In essence, given enough energy/force/what-have-you even things that seem impossible become true (another example, at conditions we are used to gravity is a very, very weak force.. with enough energy floating around it becomes equal in force to even the strongest force, shifting paradigm works in wonderous ways).

I am very tired right now, so if anything is mispelled or words dislexicised sorry

 

[Trainz]

I am very tired right now, so if anything is mispelled or words dislexicised sorry

No, no, what you just said is the first thing that actually makes me reconsider my stance...

... bastard.

 

[catsclaw227]

That would be a fine way for you to house rule the spell to eliminate ambiguities and remove DM judgment calls. But the original poster was asking about the RAW.

Mostly I was being sarcastic, since I believe this whole thing is just about a DM judgement call and confidence that the party will understand. If the DM is fair and good, then they shouldn't doubt his decision-making.

But actually, if I am not mistaken, this is another example why a product like EN Publishing's Elements of Magic is so good.

Catsclaw

 

[Elephant]

I find that it mixes just fine when I'm DM'ing my games. The time it never seems to mix is when I'm in an online discussion about D&D with random gamers. Go figure

So things like average humans running 120 feet in 6 seconds, weakling humans that can barely hold up their own weight running at the same rate as those of Olympic fitness, people being able to dodge exploding fireballs for no harm, and high level characters being able to survive 1000 foot falls don't bother you when you stop to consider the physics?

Huh. You must run an interesting game.

 

[Oryan77]

So things like average humans running 120 feet in 6 seconds, weakling humans that can barely hold up their own weight running at the same rate as those of Olympic fitness, people being able to dodge exploding fireballs for no harm, and high level characters being able to survive 1000 foot falls don't bother you when you stop to consider the physics?

Huh. You must run an interesting game.

No, but what does bother me are the random gamers online that I'm in discussions with who don't know a joke when they see one, and instead reply with some snooty remark...happens much too often

Huh. You must run a humorless game.

 

[Staffan]

This thread has made me annoyed.

It has made me annoyed because it made me realize that now, even horrid wilting has been nerfed down to the silly "1d6/level" standard.

It's friggin eighth level. It should do more damage than a wussy fireball. OK, higher damage cap. OK, pinpoint targeting (which is mostly good, but bad if you're dealing with invisible things). But it's still five levels higher, it should do more damage!

 

[werk]

No, but what does bother me are the random gamers online ...reply with some snooty remark...happens much too often.

I agree with that. Usually better in the rules forum, but seems to have been bad lately.

I think it's a wide-spread problem that I see more and more in America...people stating opinion as fact. Instead of saying, 'I don't like that' they say 'that is stupid'.

I had to leave a group because a guy did this all the time, and it was intolerable to be around. Just because you don't like something, doesn't affect the thing at all. And belittling something, usually doesn't influence my opinion at all.


Could you Flesh to Stone a fire elemental? That seems like a better example of having to make a judgement call all the time.