Horrid Wilting

[werk]

On the other hand, prove to us that a fire elemental does have moisture.

We are the one's saying that the spell should work, you are the one with the unsupported moisture argument. I've supplied text from the rules, which support that the spell will work on all living creatures (a lot more than fire elementals) and avoids ad-hoc moisture rulings during play. So please try support your moisture argument with something other than 'it doesn't make sense' or 'fire doesn't have moisture' because those are assumtions, not d20 mechanics.

 

[werk]

So, what makes sensewise, whenever I shoot someone with this spell it should be damaging their armor/sheild/weapon/whatever, not just them. If I fire off a couple of rounds of Acid Arrow at a fighter in full plate does his plate armor take the damage instead of his hit points....chances are I shot his armor with the arrow, not his skin. Thats what makes sense.

DS

Acid Arrow doesn't specify a type of target, so you can ranged touch anything as a target (unlike horrid wilting or magic missle). Because it's a game, you only get to hit one target to avoid abuse.

I think my sig says something about how important it is for everything to make sense. It makes the difference between a game and a simulation.

 

[ThirdWizard]

By the way, if they're made of fire then why do they do blugeoning damage to you when they hit you? Or is there some kind of "solid fire" involved (but no liquid fire of course...)?

Slap or Slam: The creature batters opponents with an appendage, dealing bludgeoning damage.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Well done, ThirdWizard!

 

[Shadowdweller]

By the way, if they're made of fire then why do they do blugeoning damage to you when they hit you? Or is there some kind of "solid fire" involved (but no liquid fire of course...)?

Not quite so fast: That would be the exact same way air elementals do slam attacks.

What we call 'fire' IRL generally being the air molecules around the actual combustion reaction releasing energy as light. Air molecules most certainly can impact upon things (that being why wind is capable of blowing things about).

 

[ThirdWizard]

So you're saying the fire elemental is hitting us with air and that's why its doing bludgeoning damage?

EDIT:
Is it really more plausable that fire elementals create a huge and concentrated gust of wind that hurts those that they strike than them being composed of something at least partly solid? Are we trying to figure out how the spell works here or are we trying to figure out how to make sure it doesn't affect fire elementals because of pre-concieved notions? Just askin'.

 

[Voadam]

Just pointing out that moisture doesn't matter with regard to this spell.

Your quote shows that moisture is irrelevant to targeting a HW. It can validly target a fire elemental no question because an elemental is a living creature.

The question is whether it has any effect on the validly targeted living creature.

And I believe under the RAW it will matter if it targets a valid target that has no moisture in its body.

 

[Voadam]

So you're saying the fire elemental is hitting us with air and that's why its doing bludgeoning damage?

EDIT:
Is it really more plausable that fire elementals create a huge and concentrated gust of wind that hurts those that they strike than them being composed of something at least partly solid? Are we trying to figure out how the spell works here or are we trying to figure out how to make sure it doesn't affect fire elementals because of pre-concieved notions? Just askin'.

Are you suggesting that because they do slam damage they must have moisture in their bodies? If so I'm not seeing how you come to that conclusion.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I'm saying they arn't composed purely of fire, but also have solid matter inside them.

Therefore you cannot use the interprietation that they are composed purely of fire to support a lack of moisture in their bodies. They also give cover, not concealment, to creatures/objects on the opposite side of them. They can perform bull rushes, etc. Something about them is, in fact, physical.

What this physical aspect actually is isn't covered by the RAW. Until the Book of Elementals* is released, the biology behind these elemental beings is at best ambiguous. Remember, I'm not saying that they do have moisture, I am saying that noone can readily say that they do not have moisture. Without some convincing evidence toward that fact, it is best to interpriet the spell to affect fire elementals.

*I know of no plans by WotC to release such a book ever, though it would be cool

 

[Shadowdweller]

I'm saying they arn't composed purely of fire, but also have solid matter inside them.

...which doesn't work by the argument you're using because solid matter isn't required in order to bludgeon something.

And, while we're at it, is there anything in the RAW which states that incorporeal creatures (who lack bodies capable of ANY physical interaction) do not provide cover, or do not keep opponents from entering their square?