Horses at high level?

[frankthedm]

Perhaps it is intentional that spirited charge can be defeated by killing the mount? Surely I cannot be the only one who sees the possibility that might be an intended balancing factor of the ability to double and possibly triple one’s damage output? Sure one can do gobs and gobs of damage on a true striking power attacking mounted charge, but that mount has to be living when you get to the enemy. Low mount HP {comparatively low at higher levels] might not be a mistake. The damage differences in what a person built to use a mount can do is such that any sentient foe recognizes the importance of dropping that mount. It may sound ‘unfun’ to treat the mounted feats as targets to be negated, but those are among the easiest ways to double damage and worse.

 

[frankthedm]

And from the other end of the Mount debate, I Just started a poll in General Discusion on what to price this slightly upgraded horse at.

Red Hare: Extra Heavy Warhorse
HD: 6d8+24 (51 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 60 ft.
Armor Class: 16 (–1 size, +2 Dex. +5 natural), T 11, FF 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+13
Attack: Hoof +8 melee (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 2 hooves +8 melee (1d6+5) and bite +3 melee (1d4+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +6, Will +3
Abilities: Str 21, Dex 14, Con 18, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 8
Skills: Listen +6, Spot +5
Feats: Endurance, Run, Improved Natural Armor
Red Hare’s light load, 459 pounds; medium load, 460-918 pounds; heavy load, 919-1380 pounds. It can drag 6900 pounds.

 

[Loincloth of Armour]

I use a house rule that mounts gain 1/2 their rider's hit point total as 'phantom' hp againt area of effect spells/effects only.

The idea is to not overtly punish the mount for attack spells who's main goal is to damage the rider.

That allows the mount to usually survive the fireball that was tossed at the player, but not give them too many hit points. Using this house rule and Mounted Combat to up its AC against an attack usually keeps them around, but still nowehere near as good combatants as upping their HD.

Of course if they're targeted by a 'target' spell, the mount is still SOL, but at least that's a round the spell is not directed at the player.

 

[IcyCool]

And from the other end of the Mount debate, I Just started a poll in General Discusion on what to price this slightly upgraded horse at.

Red Hare: Extra Heavy Warhorse

Well, it shouldn't cost anything. The PC should have to steal it from Lu Bu. That's hard enough.

 

[frankthedm]

Well, it shouldn't cost anything. The PC should have to steal it from Lu Bu. That's hard enough.

I believe Red Hare outlives Lu Bu...

 

[IcyCool]

I believe Red Hare outlives Lu Bu...

Sure, but trying to take it from Cao Cao or Guan Yu would be almost equally difficult...

 

[frankthedm]

Sure, but trying to take it from Cao Cao or Guan Yu would be almost equally difficult...

Surviving that many riders sounds like Red Hare deserves better stats. Maybe 16 HD elite Dire Horse.

Well, I'm in an advancing mood so here come the horses... dire horses that is.
[sblock=Fiendish dire horse]
HD: 8d8+48+8 (92 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 60 ft.
Armor Class: 16 (–1 size, +1 Dex. +6 natural), T 10, FF 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+16
Attack: Hoof +11 melee (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 2 hooves +11 melee (1d6+6) and bite +6 melee (1d4+3)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Smite good
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60’ DR 5/ Magic, Low-light vision, Resist Cold & Fire 10, scent, SR 13
Saves: Fort +12, Ref +7, Will +8
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 13, Con 22, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 11
Skills: Listen +8, Spot +8
Feats: Endurance, Run, Improved toughness
Alignment: Lawful Evil
CR 6 [/sblock] [sblock=Elite Dire Horse]
HD: 8d8+72 ( 108 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 60 ft.
Armor Class: 16 (–1 size, +1 Dex. +6 natural), T 10, FF 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+15
Attack: Hoof +10 melee (1d6+4)
Full Attack: 2 hooves +10 melee (1d6+5) and bite +5 melee (1d4+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +9, Will +9
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 16, Con 27, Int 2, Wis 17, Cha 12
Skills: Listen +9, Spot +8
Feats: Endurance, Die hard, Improved toughness
CR 5[/sblock] [sblock= 11HD Advanced Dire horse]
HD: 11d8+ 66 + 11 (126 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 60 ft.
Armor Class: 17 (–1 size, +1 Dex. +7 natural), T 10, FF 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+18
Attack: Hoof +13 melee (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 2 hooves +13 melee (1d6+6) and bite +7 melee (1d4+3)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +13, Ref +8, Will +9
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 13, Con 22, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 11
Skills: Listen +9, Spot +10
Feats: Endurance, Run, Improved toughness, Improved Natural Armor
CR 5[/sblock]

 

[IcyCool]

Those are pretty sweet, but I think the best warhorse is gained by taking leadership to aquire a druid cohort. Said cohort then wildshapes into a horse, and not only can he take a beating, he can also cast spells.

 

[DarkJester]

How about giving the horses bonus hp equal to half the riders hit points? HP in part represents luck and the ability to roll with it anyhow. I can see an experienced rider able to keep his mount out of trouble in more ways than just the mounted combat feat.

Seems like a scalable mechanic and I can't see to much room for abuse if you keep it to only normal mounts. It should let your horse stick around quite a bit longer without giving him any extra advantages.

 

[Darklone]

Go druid yourself and get a paladin pixie cohort that rides you and deflects attacks on you with Mounted Combat.