D&D General Hot Take: Dungeon Exploration Requires Light Rules To Be Fun

[Aldarc]

Well, I know B/X better than 5e, but what you say is my impression.

B/X has rules for timekeeping, for a random encounter cycle and a rest cycle based around that, a relationship between movement rates and typical dungeon distances that means that exploration activates the time-based cycles. And rules for opening doors, listening at doors, finding and triggering traps, etc, all of which underlie the exploration focus.

Light (and hence vision) is also more tightly rationed, as torches or lantern oil have to be purchased, and the Light spell is not a freebie.

I would say that these are the basic mechanical components of the process of play that underpin B/X exploration.

This is also not including things like having player roles like a Mapper and Caller.

 

[Mannahnin]

This is also not including things like having player roles like a Mapper and Caller.

The Mapper definitely embeds the importance of navigation and the quasi-maze puzzle of the dungeon and centers it in play.

IME the Caller is less clearly about dungeon procedures than it is about organizing a large group. But on the other hand, one of the things it's handy for is when the group needs to make a series of decisions without debate, for the sake of time. And deciding which turn to take, which door to open (etc.) in a dungeon is a circumstance when you do tend to have a rapid succession of such decisions.

 

[Thomas Shey]

The Mapper definitely embeds the importance of navigation and the quasi-maze puzzle of the dungeon and centers it in play.

IME the Caller is less clearly about dungeon procedures than it is about organizing a large group. But on the other hand, one of the things it's handy for is when the group needs to make a series of decisions without debate, for the sake of time. And deciding which turn to take, which door to open (etc.) in a dungeon is a circumstance when you do tend to have a rapid succession of such decisions.

For whatever its worth, we absolutely used to have a Mapper back in our old OD&D days, but we not only didn't use, but I never even encountered a game where someone used a Caller.

 

[CreamCloud0]

This is also not including things like having player roles like a Mapper and Caller.

Caller? What role is that/what is their purpose?

 

[Staffan]

I don't have a problem with faction intrigue at all. I just don't think having factions in relatively tight spaces (enough that the sounds of battle should likely carry) and yet don't care about battle and don't have their border areas secured makes any sense. The distance involved for that should be miles, not a couple hundred feet.

This is one of the reasons I think anything large enough to be considered a megadungeon should be treated as a wilderness area where you only focus on the points of interest and possibly have random encounters in between.

Caller? What role is that/what is their purpose?

Relaying the decisions of group-level decisions to the DM, so there's no confusion about "Hey, I thought we were going left?"

 

[Aldarc]

Caller? What role is that/what is their purpose?

As per Steffan. It's a role detailed in B/X:

THE CALLER: One player should be chosen to tell the DM about the plans and actions of the party. This player is the caller. The players may tell the DM what their characters are doing, but the game runs more smoothly when the caller relays the information. The caller should be sure to check with each member of the party before announcing any actions (such as "We'll turn right" or "The thief will check for traps"). The caller is usually a character with a high Charisma score, and should be near the front of the party, where the character would be able to see what the DM describes.

 

[Reynard]

This is one of the reasons I think anything large enough to be considered a megadungeon should be treated as a wilderness area where you only focus on the points of interest and possibly have random encounters in between.

This essentially undermines the whole point. Which is fine if you don't actually want to engage in a dungeon crawl, but not much help when discussing how to best engage in a dungeon crawl.

 

[bloodtide]

I still say it is how you play the game, not the rules.

Dungeoncrawls work best with the Tyrant all powerful DM, not any of the other ways of running a game.

With things like Timed Actions. In my game it's three seconds, but most 'classic' game have a short time, often less then a minute, for the player to act. And the Tyrant DM does not give the player even a single extra second.

No take backs...another classic. The player says their character does an action....and it happens. And if something bad happens the Tyrant DM firmly lets it stand and says "no take backs".

This also covers the "expert" problem from a couple threads ago. "Wait!" says the Clueless Player, "My Super Smart Character would know better!". And the DM just shrugs "you stated the action...it happened, no take backs".
=====

And, unrelated to the above, is just the general Zeal for gaming you will find in some players....nearly always Old School gamers:

The DM describes a dungeon room...and the players have their characters go right in an interact with the room and it's contents. The characters do things, try things and are very active.

 

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

Caller? What role is that/what is their purpose?

B/X was written for and assumes a party size of like 9 or so Players (not characters, PLAYERS), in addition to any henchmen/hirelings along with them. It was essential to have player in charge of 'wrangling' the other players rather than put that burden on the GM on top of everything else.

Speedy gameplay would be very difficult if individually playing out a back and forth with every single player and the GM with that size of party.

 

[Manbearcat]

Moldvay Basic, the second greatest dungeoncrawling engine in the history of TTRPGs, is not light.

Torchbearer, the most engaging, most intense, and most rewarding dungeoncrawling engine in all the land (and in lands beyond) is extremely dense.