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Hot to circumvent Discern Lies
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Tiberius
Explorer
Zhure said:
Much as I approve of those ideas, and in fact have used just that sort of dodge when having a character questioned with the Zone of Truth spell, doesn't the capability to give answers like that neuter the lie detector spells? You may as well not have them if you are able to circumvent them so easily.
-Tiberius
Sejs
First Post
(Hi, new guy here)
other answers you could give, just incase you'd like some more options-
Q: Did you strangle her?
A: I don't know what you're talking about - I was with my husband that night (partial truth- could slide by if she had spent time with her husband that evening)
A2: Honestly, I didn't see her face all evening. (partial truth- I sneaked up on her from behind, so she wouldn't be able to see me)
or you could always just have her try and bluff her way out of it by breaking down into tears, and then having the servants, etc escourt the PCs out. That'd give the noblewoman some time to come up with a counter to their ploy. Glibness Potion, Nondetection, that sort of thing.. assuming she has the resourced available.
^_^
other answers you could give, just incase you'd like some more options-
Q: Did you strangle her?
A: I don't know what you're talking about - I was with my husband that night (partial truth- could slide by if she had spent time with her husband that evening)
A2: Honestly, I didn't see her face all evening. (partial truth- I sneaked up on her from behind, so she wouldn't be able to see me)
or you could always just have her try and bluff her way out of it by breaking down into tears, and then having the servants, etc escourt the PCs out. That'd give the noblewoman some time to come up with a counter to their ploy. Glibness Potion, Nondetection, that sort of thing.. assuming she has the resourced available.
^_^
Crothian
First Post
Personally, I think it's Detect Thoughts that is going to be more useful.
Also, in response to Hong's "5) Magic spells aren't proof, they just tell you where to find it. So even if someone admits under a zone of truth spell that they're a member of the guild, this may not be admissible evidence in a court of law."
I think that would depend on the campaing world. A country that is very heavily into magic (divine or Arcane) could very well consider this to be proof. Think of a version of the Movie Minority Report.
Also, in response to Hong's "5) Magic spells aren't proof, they just tell you where to find it. So even if someone admits under a zone of truth spell that they're a member of the guild, this may not be admissible evidence in a court of law."
I think that would depend on the campaing world. A country that is very heavily into magic (divine or Arcane) could very well consider this to be proof. Think of a version of the Movie Minority Report.
Storminator
First Post
In my campaign the courthouse are Hallowed, with ZoT as the included spell. All questioning done in the jail is subject to ZoT. Of course, no lay persons know that ZoT can be resisted, so anything said in court is simply believed.
Over the years the prosecutors have become quite adept at follow up questions to counter evasive answers, and if you refuse, the judges (all high level priests, natch) use Command ("Answer!") on you. Eventually you fail a save and have to answer. And lawyers? that's for the rich, not you run of the mill thief.
Now my campaign doesn't have a true thieves guild, but it does have a number of small timers. My PCs really hated their trial, especially since rules of evidence weren't explained, rights to call witnesses weren't explained, etc. If they happened to guess correctly they were granted the rights, but they didn't ask for a lot of things, and subsequently lost their trials.
PS
Over the years the prosecutors have become quite adept at follow up questions to counter evasive answers, and if you refuse, the judges (all high level priests, natch) use Command ("Answer!") on you. Eventually you fail a save and have to answer. And lawyers? that's for the rich, not you run of the mill thief.
Now my campaign doesn't have a true thieves guild, but it does have a number of small timers. My PCs really hated their trial, especially since rules of evidence weren't explained, rights to call witnesses weren't explained, etc. If they happened to guess correctly they were granted the rights, but they didn't ask for a lot of things, and subsequently lost their trials.
PS
Savage Wombat
Hero
I distinctly recall a fantasy novel with a murder investigation in it. After the author had gone to a great deal of trouble to set up a locked-room mystery that magic couldn't easily break - "Did someone teleport in? No. Could someone have walked through the walls? No. etc." - the detective fell for one of the classic blunders.
"Did you kill victims A and B?" "No." "The spell says he's telling the truth."
Of course, he'd only killed victim A. Someone else killed B. In the world of logic, if A is True and B is False, A+B is False.
"Did you kill victims A and B?" "No." "The spell says he's telling the truth."
Of course, he'd only killed victim A. Someone else killed B. In the world of logic, if A is True and B is False, A+B is False.
Crothian said:
Well, _all_ of 1) to 5) are dependent on the campaign world, really. Sometimes there may be an all-powerful thieves' guild behind the scenes, sometimes not. Sometimes spellcasters may be everywhere, sometimes not. This particular one is just a bit more obvious.
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