House Rule Help: Initiative

[Niveria]

Hi, All.

I'm going to be running a d20 Modern campaign, soon. The group I've been playing in has been using a house rule for D&D by which initiative is re-rolled every round. Personally, I don't like this rule, since it makes delaying or readying actions too easy. There's no penalty in exchange for the benefit if your initiative is automatically reset at the end of the round.

However, I'm toying with an idea for a house rule of my own. I'd appreciate some input from anyone who is interested.

One initiative roll per combat sequence. However, players may reroll initiative by foregoing all actions for one round. The idea is that the character effectively withdraws from combat to reassess the situation. (If the character is forced to defend him or herself during that round, the chance to reroll is lost.) The character can get the same benefit without giving up actions by expending one action point. In either of these cases, players must announce their intentions at the beginning of a combat round.

I'm pretty comfortable with that part, it's the second part I think needs work...

Characters possessing the Combat Reflexes feat may avoid paying the action point if they forego all attacks of opportunity for the first round after the new initiative roll. They may otherwise act normally during all combat rounds.

I guess my main question in this regard is whether I should amend Combat Reflexes in this way or simply create a new feat, Combat Reassessment, that allows a character to reroll initiative. If a new feat is called for, the question then becomes, "How many times per combat sequence should the feat allow a player to re-roll?"

In case anyone is wondering, I'm considering this house rule simply because I want to give players the option of recovering from either a low initiative roll or a long delayed action time. I just want to make sure I do it in a way that doesn't undermine the purpose of the one-initiative-roll concept.

Thanks for your help!
Paris

 

[Geoff Watson]

Your rule seems overly complex.

The characters can Delay or Refocus anyway, so the main thing seems to be allowing characters who rolled badly on initiative to get an extra turn by spending an action point, or for 'free' if they have Combat Reflexes.

There is no difference between going last in one round and going first in the next, so there is no point trying to 'recover' a bad initiative roll.

Geoff.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

In one (D&D) campaign, we rerolled init every round (against my better judgement), since there were a lot of people who only played 2e before, and weren't comfortable with static init. But fortunately, the DM saw (in my game, where I used the official ruling) that static init is better (because of durations, especially one round durations), and we changed it.

I recommend using the normal init rules. No rerolling, no house rules (and forget refocus and all that nonsense, since you can only lose with that). After the combat started, the whole concept of combat rounds becomes irrelevant, only the combatants rounds count: spell durations start and end on his init count, and so they last always x rounds.

 

[Niveria]

Thanks for the input. I guess you're right about things being too complicated. I have a tendency to do that. A few questions, though:

1) Geoff, can you point me to the rule reference that allow "refocusing"? I've read the initiative rules backward and foreward, but I didn't see any reference to allowing a character to refocus and change his initiative roll. Any details you can provide on how that ruling works would be appreciated.

2) Kae Yoss, I'm curious to know why you don't think the ability to re-roll initiative would be a positive thing for players.

Here's the logic that initially led to my examination of this house rule: By readying or delaying an action, a character who initially rolled a high initiative result could potentially place himself last in initiative order as early as the second round of a combat (our combats, by the way have tended to last for at least 10 rounds, lately). In d20 Modern, the massive damage rules and shear lethality of a firefight makes initiative even more important than in D&D. Therefore, it makes sense to me that players might be willing to give up something in exchange for a chance to improve their initiative roll.

I agree with Geoff that the whole feat idea was a bit silly. I think the best way to do it is to allow a character to sit out for one round of combat (if possible) and re-roll his initiative. If the player doesn't want to take a "reassessment round", I think that it's fair to ask him to give up one action point in return for another initiative roll.

 

[Niveria]

So that's how you get double posts...

 

[Geoff Watson]

Sorry about the Refocusing bit, I thought Modern had the same initiative rules as D&D. It's not important anyway, as Delaying to be last does the same thing.

The initiative number is really not important after the first round. It is only used to determine what order the characters go in.
Going last in one round is the same as going first in the next round.

Eg:
A is fighting B. A rolls higher initiative.
The combat order is:
ABABABABAB etc

or, A Delays in the first round to let B go first.
The combat order is:
BABABABABA etc

Not much difference, except in the first round.

If A then decided to use your reroll idea in the second round
BAB(A rerolls)
If A rolls higher than B you get:
BABABABABA
Same as if he didn't reroll.

If A rolls lower than B you get:
BABBABABAB
Worse than if he didn't reroll, as B gets an extra action.

Geoff.

 

[Niveria]

I see your logic. I've tried a bunch of scenarios with different numbers of combatants (thinking that maybe your AB example was over-simplified). You guys are right: The only round in which delaying or readying actions really have a potential penalty is the round in which you use them. After that, sequences settle out again.

I'm glad I asked. Thanks!

 

[jeffhartsell]

The one big difference in d20M in not having "refocus" is that you cannot delay until the end of the round and then refocus and then keep delaying to see what people do and then go before someone else (go on initiative X when someone else is lower than X; with delaying you cannot act before someone on the same initiative).

This is a great tactic for spellcasters because they can hang out delaying most of the battle and then go right when they need to cast a spell before bad guys or moving in to cast a heal when it is needed.

In d20M, you can only effectively delay through the first round. After that point, if you delayed until the "end" of a round, you give up your action and then everyone else goes. You can then never be higher than the end and are stuck in that order.

With delay AND refocus, you don't really give up your action; you just keep moving your action until you fell like you need to do something useful. After you get a new initiative, on your next action you can again delay AND refocus to re-start the waiting game.

This is a subtle difference between DnD and d20M.

For example DND: Initiative scores (Wiz has +4 initiative. Clr +2)

Round 1: Wiz 23, Rog 19, Baddies 15, Clr 10, Ftr 8, Baddies 4
Wiz is delaying and does nothing then refocus
Round 2: Wiz 24, Rog 19, Baddies 15, Clr 10, Ftr 8, Baddies 4
Wiz blasts some baddies. Clr delays and refocus.
Round 3: Wiz 24, Clr 22, Rog 19, Baddies 15, Ftr 8, Baddies 4
Through the entire round the Wiz and Clr can delay until they *WANT* to act.

For example d20M: Initiative scores (Mage has +4 initiative. Acolyte +2)

Round 1: Mage 23, Rog 19, Baddies 15, Aco 10, Ftr 8, Baddies 4
Mage is delaying and blasts baddies
Round 2: Rog 19, Baddies 15, Aco 10, Ftr 8, Baddies 4, Mage 3
Acolyte delays. Wiz goes at end of round.
Round 3: Rog 19, Baddies 15, Ftr 8, Baddies 4, Mage 3, Acolyte 2
Mage and Acolyte really cannot delay anymore since it only will cause them to forfeit their actions.

The longest a character can delay before taking an action is until after everyone else has acted in the round. At that point, the delaying character must act or else forfeit any action in that round.

This is not the case in DnD since you can refocus and be at the top of the order and then act as the need arises. The key difference is that in d20M you cannot delay indefinitely round after round until you want to go.