Houserule: Non Adventuring Skills

[FourthBear]

I think that asking PCs to select a number of background and flavor skills unrelated to standard adventuring sounds like a good idea. I will note that having a number on your character sheet for a skill is not at all the same as being mechanically meaningful. I think that the skill has to actually be called upon during the game and that the die roll have some meaningful impact. Having Perform: Snappy Dresser +12 may be nice, but if you never roll for it or get any feeling that in the game what you roll matters then it's not really mechanically meaningful.

I would suggest just writing down a selection of hobbies, skills and interests in the character background. If they come up in play, it sounds as though in 4e it will be pretty easy to improvise a reasonable number (there being only three major categories of skill: Untrained, Trained and Focused). If a skill comes up often enough that its being rolled frequently and meaningfully, then I would consider that perhaps it should be on the campaign's official skill list.

 

[AZRogue]

Why not let your players make up a background, with a little campaign guidance from the DM, and then let them roleplay their non game-affecting skills as fits with their background or character concept?

If I make an interesting background I don't NEED an automatic +2 to Performance Art (Folk Dancing) because I grew up digging the river dance. If I include that in my background than if I say I start dancing it should be assumed that I started to do a jig without having to hit a DC 20. Common sense and complex backstories adjucated by the DM and Players through descriptive actions is how we used to do it.

Not saying that there's anything wrong with that level of complexity, just that I never saw the need as it was tedious at best and distraction from roleplaying at worst. Back in 1E we used to handle a lot of things that way (ah, the good old days of Humphrey and his Quest for the Golden Camel that Drank the Water of the World).

 

[Corinth]

Easily solved. Dole out skill points twice; first set for adventuring skills, second for other skills.

 

[Pale Jackal]

I agree that giving out skills which are never used is somewhat pointless.

Also, yes, you can have a background for your character. Though skill points allow some gradation, for example: is your noble good or bad at heraldry? Maybe there's a reason he's bad at heraldry?

I mean, the fact that he often skipped his lessons could've been an integral part of his background. Or, it could be something you made up after you realized, "I don't want heraldry" or "I don't think this character would be good at heraldry."

Obviously, skills aren't a replacement for a good background, but you can still have a good background without having a reason for why your character sucks at heraldry. Having a system which encourages additional detail is a good thing, IMO.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The Background rules from (I think) PHB2 might make a good fit.

Myself, I want to do something a little more drastic:

Get rid of the normal skills. Make things that 'every adventurer would be trained in' (things that help you avoid getting eaten by a grue) automatic.

Then, use a Profession rule reflecting a few broad sectors of profession.

Make these VERY useful.

For instance, let's say one of the Professions was Crafter. With a Crafter in the party, he could make, repair, and even generate new equipment, even magical stuff. Lets let the Crafter deal with traps and locks and the like as well. The Crafter was originally a cobbler of shoes...and now that he's a hero, he can make mangificent magical sandals and can use fabric, a needle, and a swatch of leather to MacGuyver the lock open.

Or what if one of the Professions was Diplomat. With a Diplomat in the party, she could tell you which fork to use at the noble's dinner, but also persuade the shopkeeper to give you a discount and convince the rampaging orc to simmer down and go home with a few stern words. The Diplomat war originally, say, a tavern entertainer, but now that she's a Hero, she can convince Devils to dance, and martial armies willing to defend her.

Or perhaps one of the Professions was Scoundrel. With a Scoundrel in the party, you could find wealth in any urban area, skulk about unseen, use disguises to fool others, etc. Perhaps before becoming a hero, they were just a poor street urchin, but bow that Destiny Has Chosen Them, they have become a creature at one with the shadows, who is a continual cipher, and who can even mask his true thoughts from mind-readers.

A few (no more than, say, 10) broad areas like this, made significantly powerful (e.g.: taking away from other skills) would mean a few mighty Silos that would really differentiate characters and give them a reason to have a background (because the skills they learned as a cobbler, or as a tavern wench, or as a street urchin, come into play in a heroic fashion).

It needs some work, but I'd rather make the mundane heroic than to ignore the mundane entirely because the heroic is more interesting.

 

[Lackhand]

I've been toying with the language idea, myself. Basically, I'm going to smash racial languages and the concept of "background" together to make a system for characters to select training in a variety of musical instruments, arts, crafts, and languages.

So elves begin play speaking common and elven, and may select up to their intelligence bonus of additional languages (as the elven racial languages description), crafts (mostly woodcarving), arts (many!), instruments (woodwinds, song, flute), or professions (none. Sucks to be an elf. )

Dwarves begin speaking common and dwarven, and select up to their intelligence bonus of additional languages (natch), crafts (all!), arts (none!), instruments (drums + tuba!), or professions (lots!).

Humans get common and a free profession, thus neatly closing the missing-racial-language hole.

And so on. If it ever comes up, the skill counts as "fully trained" for whatever game system I'm in -- so level + 3 ranks for D&D 3.5, 1/2 level + 5 for saga (save the +10 for those who burn a feat on it -- I can only be so generous.)

 

[Professor Phobos]

Easy solution: In the off chance something like this comes up mattering to the adventure, the PC can spend an action point to do anything appropriate to his background in some kind of excellent manner. And if it's just routine use, assume it's fine.

So, say, "My rogue used to be an expert cook before the King died during a meal, and now he's on the run from the Royal Guard, who think he was the poisoner."

If at any time he needs to cook something, it's automatically good. I mean, why bother rolling?

If it's somehow vitally important- like he's been kidnapped by some faerie lord who demands a single meal of superlative quality or he'll imprison him in a thorn tree for all eternity...all it takes is an action point. You could work it so that if he refuses to spend it and survives the ensuing consequences, he gets some kind of benefit for doing things the hard way.

And that's just if you really need a game mechanic for this stuff.

 

[apoptosis]

The Background rules from (I think) PHB2 might make a good fit.

Myself, I want to do something a little more drastic:

Get rid of the normal skills. Make things that 'every adventurer would be trained in' (things that help you avoid getting eaten by a grue) automatic.

Then, use a Profession rule reflecting a few broad sectors of profession.

Make these VERY useful.

For instance, let's say one of the Professions was Crafter. With a Crafter in the party, he could make, repair, and even generate new equipment, even magical stuff. Lets let the Crafter deal with traps and locks and the like as well. The Crafter was originally a cobbler of shoes...and now that he's a hero, he can make mangificent magical sandals and can use fabric, a needle, and a swatch of leather to MacGuyver the lock open.

Or what if one of the Professions was Diplomat. With a Diplomat in the party, she could tell you which fork to use at the noble's dinner, but also persuade the shopkeeper to give you a discount and convince the rampaging orc to simmer down and go home with a few stern words. The Diplomat war originally, say, a tavern entertainer, but now that she's a Hero, she can convince Devils to dance, and martial armies willing to defend her.

Or perhaps one of the Professions was Scoundrel. With a Scoundrel in the party, you could find wealth in any urban area, skulk about unseen, use disguises to fool others, etc. Perhaps before becoming a hero, they were just a poor street urchin, but bow that Destiny Has Chosen Them, they have become a creature at one with the shadows, who is a continual cipher, and who can even mask his true thoughts from mind-readers.

A few (no more than, say, 10) broad areas like this, made significantly powerful (e.g.: taking away from other skills) would mean a few mighty Silos that would really differentiate characters and give them a reason to have a background (because the skills they learned as a cobbler, or as a tavern wench, or as a street urchin, come into play in a heroic fashion).

It needs some work, but I'd rather make the mundane heroic than to ignore the mundane entirely because the heroic is more interesting.

I really like your idea. Actually I think it is better as game unto itself vs a tack-on to D&D to be honest.

I think it is a really cool idea.

 

[robertliguori]

One problem is that the skill is extremely rare that, once you wrap rules around it, you cannot gain mechanical advantage from; in edge cases, nearly every skill can be used by adventurers. The other is that D&D encodes several real-world assumptions into its rules, one of those assumptions being that specialization of devoted resource in the direction of a particular goal is usually worth it. If you have two fighters, one of which took points in profession(calligrapher) and knowledge(philosophy) to represent his training as a warrior-poet, and another fighter spends his skills on not-die skills because he wants to not die, then, all things being equal, he should be better at not dying than the warrior-poet...but he should be screwed when he's called upon to compose a haiku in the middle of combat to distract the enemy (who is also a warrior-poet).

I think that a meta-system that determined the value of skills in a given campaign would be helpful. For instance, if you are role-playing an adventuring boy-band overcoming challenges through the power of Rock, skills like Perform and profession(roadie) are more valuable than your BAB score. Conversely, in a kick-down-the-door tomb-raiding quest, skills like diplomacy are pretty much useless. The DMG should mention that challenges involving certain skill groups are expected to come up X so often, and that if you are having a lot of/no rolls in a particular skill in your expected campaign, you should adjust the cost of the skill accordingly.

As an alternate option, a background system a la Iron Heroes or d20 modern, in which you choose a background that grants you extra class skills, a bonus to some skills, and a minor mechanical benefit (a feat or a feat-plus in Iron Heroes) would accomplish this, as well.

 

[Professor Phobos]

Tri-Stat DX had a system like that. It was terrible- all it did was add to the needless complexity.

I'm really not inclined to deny a player anything in this regard. As far as I'm concerned, they can cook if they want, know how to build houses if that's what they want, and speak as many languages as they so desire.