How a ****ing cantrip exterminates an entire school of magic. NO MORE OF THAT!

[The-Random-NPC]

Illusions are like cons, if you know that it is a con, it tends to not succeed, unless that is part of the con. If at all possible, you should engineer the situtation so that knowledge that the illusion is an illusion is completly irrelevent. For example, illusory floor cast on regular floors, pits and covered pits. At that point knowing that the floor is illusory is completly irrelevent because you don't know if there is a pit trap underneath. There should also be random illusory floors that look like pit traps so that anyone coming across them will waste time.

 

[Particle_Man]

2) In a building or dungeon, One thing I am puzzled with is that you said time is generally not an issue in your dungeons. Well then if time is not an issue then going very very slowly and carefully over every inch of a dungeon/building will get you through almost as well as detect magic. If time is an issue then detect magic is going to run out or be unfeasible for a fair bit of the time. (If your High-level enough to have permanent detect magic then your also high enough level for permanent versions of aura-concealing spells.)

False analogy. There is often time for a Warlock to spend one round using DM as a spell-like ability. If no magic is detect, the other 2 rounds don't need to be spent. If magic is detected, it is worth-while to spend 2 rounds to discover what type of magic. If illusion is detected as such, then the illusion is usually much easier to defeat.

 

[Particle_Man]

Illusions are like cons, if you know that it is a con, it tends to not succeed, unless that is part of the con. If at all possible, you should engineer the situtation so that knowledge that the illusion is an illusion is completly irrelevent. For example, illusory floor cast on regular floors, pits and covered pits. At that point knowing that the floor is illusory is completly irrelevent because you don't know if there is a pit trap underneath. There should also be random illusory floors that look like pit traps so that anyone coming across them will waste time.

So your solution is to make the illusionist do a heck of a lot of advance prep (which often only works for NPC stationary illusionists, rather than PC mobile illusionists). My solution is to have DM fail to detect illusions, period.

I have yet to hear anyone say that my house rule would be a disaster for the game, or even in any way a bad thing (although I have seen one person come up with a more complicated alternative that they like, but which I see as roughly a mirror image of "DM doesn't work on illusions unless you make a DC will save vs. the spell). I have heard people say it is a good thing.

So I think, if my house rule is seen by some as a good thing, and others as a neutral thing, and by no one as a bad thing, that this would solve the problem for those that see it as a problem. Like, if some d20 game game out with my house rule, would people complain about the now-godlike power of illusionists? So far, I haven't heard this.

 

[airwalkrr]

Sorry to sound like a prick, but this sounds SO narrow minded and seems like it comes from a mouth of a strictly combat-loving player. And your list proves it.

I have one thing to say to this. If D&D (3e anyway) isn't intended to be a combat-oriented game then why does such a large proportion of the rules deal with combat? Virtually everything in the game is directed towards the eventuality of beating monsters and taking their stuff. Its right there in the title of the game: Dungeons & Dragons. Exploring dungeons, finding dragons (epitomized as the ultimate monster), then beating them and taking their stuff is the whole point of the game. And yes, there is no wrong way to play the game as long as you are having fun, but I feel its a waste of a perfectly good combat system if all you want to do is sit around and practice your extemporaneous acting skills. Again, nothing wrong with sitting around roleplaying and never picking up dice. But you don't need a rulebook to do that.

I read the thread. I got pretty tired of seeing overgeneralizations about the school of illusion and wanted to set the record straight. Illusions are a means to an end just like any school of magic. They serve to help you navigate the dungeon, beat the dragon, and take his stuff. A few might be a little more in the fluff area (like disguise self), but they are in the clear minority.

 

[airwalkrr]

False analogy. There is often time for a Warlock to spend one round using DM as a spell-like ability. If no magic is detect, the other 2 rounds don't need to be spent. If magic is detected, it is worth-while to spend 2 rounds to discover what type of magic. If illusion is detected as such, then the illusion is usually much easier to defeat.

The downside of this is that you had to pick warlock as your base class.

I have yet to hear anyone say that my house rule would be a disaster for the game, or even in any way a bad thing (although I have seen one person come up with a more complicated alternative that they like, but which I see as roughly a mirror image of "DM doesn't work on illusions unless you make a DC will save vs. the spell). I have heard people say it is a good thing.

Just because it wouldn't be a disaster doesn't mean it is necessary. But if you are a DM and think detect magic is too powerful, but all means, do as you please. If this house rule satisfies you, then by all means, use it.

 

[airwalkrr]

If there wasn't a problem, this entire, eight-page thread would be meaningless.

Therefore, there must be a problem.

This "entire, eight-page thread" (now ten) is composed of mostly four or five people bickering the same point back and forth. Your argument is therefore null. When the thread hits 50 pages and has had just as many unique posters contributing on a regular basis then get back to me. But I estimate this thread is only going to end one of two ways. 1) Mods lock it, 2) people agree to disagree and go back to trying to prove people are wrong on the internet in other ways.

 

[Gray Lensman]

"You are the master architect. If a chart gives you a result that you don't like, throw the book out the window and make your own choices!"World Builders Guidebook, 1996, TSR Inc.

Gee, who wrote this and how old is it??? If you are a DM then it's YOUR world and Anything goes, this thread boils down to if you believe the above " or not.

QED

 

[kitcik]

This "entire, eight-page thread" (now ten) is composed of mostly four or five people bickering the same point back and forth. Your argument is therefore null. When the thread hits 50 pages and has had just as many unique posters contributing on a regular basis then get back to me. But I estimate this thread is only going to end one of two ways. 1) Mods lock it, 2) people agree to disagree and go back to trying to prove people are wrong on the internet in other ways.

Ironically, I was actually agreeing with you through the use of sarcasm on the thread. Sorry you took it the wrong way.

 

[Particle_Man]

"You are the master architect. If a chart gives you a result that you don't like, throw the book out the window and make your own choices!"World Builders Guidebook, 1996, TSR Inc.

Gee, who wrote this and how old is it??? If you are a DM then it's YOUR world and Anything goes, this thread boils down to if you believe the above " or not.

QED

Although this is still a useful thread if someone said "hey here is a good house rule that solves what I see as a problem in my game" and others say "you know, that has been a problem in my game too, I think I will adopt a similar house rule."

 

[airwalkrr]

Ironically, I was actually agreeing with you through the use of sarcasm on the thread. Sorry you took it the wrong way.

Ah yes. The failure to use the /sarcasm tag. Understood.