How are maps made?

[vonschlick]

Over on the Necromancer Games boards it was mentioned that cartography is one of the more expensive items of any gaming book. Which got me wondering. How are the maps for products made? Does the cartographer do them by hand or does he use a program like CC2 or photoshop? Does he have a rough map to go from or does he just have descriptions of the rooms?

Thanks

 

[Sunaj2k3]

Cartography capers and papers....

Vonschlick,

I like to lurk at Necromancergames as well, but the site to go for business related queries seems to be rpg.net. Given the numbers of publishers, cartographers, and folks in the rpg business that frequent that site, I'm sure you could find someone who could answer your question in a definite manner.

From what I've observed, although different cartographers use different levels of computer finishing/manipulation, all of them seem to start with either a hand drawn image which is then photo/digitally manipulated/finished or start with an image created on a digital drawing pad. As to whether they create beforehand or respond to the publisher, I suspect its the publisher who lays out what is desired (how many levels/rooms/theme/etc.). How specific they get likely varies with the publisher, their relationship with the artist, and the product.

Having tried a few map scrawls myself, I can tell you it's no easy task. A good, crisp, detailed dungeon map can take hours to draw, as can a poetic map or map that skillfully uses myriad details and colors (Darlene's Greyhawk maps being example #1). For those with a digital bent to their cartography(Chuck McCann aka Crabclaw over on Mortality.net comes to mind) manipulating the multiple layers in a digital map using photoshop or a similar program to bring out that extra pizzaz can soak up even further hours.

I guess the short answer to your question is that cartography is expensive due to is craftsmanship piece-work nature. Unlike writing, which seems to be paid cents per word or fraction of a cent per word, there seems little in the way of standard prices with cartography. I may be wrong, but I suspect the better the artistry and fame of the cartographer, the higher the price he or she commands. Also, the prices seem to vary based on the size and complexity of the map (a inset map of a room versus a half page or full page map of a dungeon level or a detailed world ) desired and whether its in color or no.

It seems that cartography is something a publisher skimps on at their peril. I remember Rappan Athuk 1 from Necro getting knocked for indistinct/imprecise maps. And while it may have worked 3 or 4 years ago, if I spot a d20 product nowadays that uses straight CC2 images with little manipulation or finishing or scans of dungeon tiles (as Dungeon Magazine did an issue or 3 ago with an Eberron adventure) its a definite demotivator to not buy that product. For better or for worse, maps that combine functionality with artistry are what sells, and depending upon the artist, that kind of handiwork does not come cheap (and returning to Necro for a sec.--I cannot begin to imagine what the costs for the 18 full color poster sized maps in the Wilderlands set will run to (I assume that's what started you on this line of inquiry)--thousands of $$$ easily).

Some talented folks you might want to poll or talk to:

Clayton Bunce--www.morningstarillustration.com (very polite and very busy, his responses can sometimes take awhile)
Jim Lassiter--www.castlewalls.us (very nice and usually very fast on responding to inquiries, check out his free castles and dungeons on dragonsfoot.com)
Christopher West--www.velocity.net/~westinds/
Eric Hotz--www.erichotz.com
Craig Zipse--www.craigzipse.com
Shawn Brown--www.shawnbrown.com
Grobius Shortling--www.marshmount.com

Good luck,

Sunaj2k3

 

[castlewalls]

Sun, I believe you basically hit it on the head! (Thanks for the kind words too!)
Depending on the software program and the skill level of the user, it can take hours, days, even weeks to create a map depending on what the originator wants to do with it (b&w vs. color, 3d-ish[shadows/depth], perspective views, amount of interior details[floorplans], etc...).
And these things also depend on if the creator is making exterior landscape (overland?) maps or building floorplans or underground areas[caverns/dungeons].

While rastor programs like Photopaint are great for "adding" final touches and "frosting" to maps, I think using a vector program (cc2, illustrator, coreldraw[my favorite...] is the best way to begin just because you can easily create vector images and manipulate them[move, fill w/color/patterns], add layers to show/hide objects for player/GM map versions not to mention the ease of selecting objects for manipulation (all the doors can be on one layer, walls on another, flooring on another, etc...).

Personally, I think the greatest asset (and downfall) of creating a computer generated map is that you can add so much detail that it becomes too time consuming. You have to know when to stop (or get therapy...). In the end, you have to decide how far you want to 'take' the map - is it a beautiful piece of artwork that's going to eat all your printer ink? Is it a functional piece that is easily understood and self explanatory (for the most part, especially if you make it available for others to D/L), is it both?

Crossby's Kelestia site says this:
"New mapping technology combines full-colour, high-resolution raster, vegetation and relief with precise vectors to show settlements, geographical features, political borders (right down to individual village boundaries), roads, trails, natural and 'unnatural' wonders, landmarks from standing stones to burial mounds and landscape art... and much, much more..."

Now he makes some very nice maps with CDraw 11, but I don't see where the "new mapping technology" is as he seems to be applying a simple plastic plugin effect to achieve the 3d-ish landmass look. But again, that effect is basically the "frosting" put on after the initial vector design work.

Anyway, I think I'm off track enough as it is.....

 

[SandraWinters]

While I'm not a big professional, I have done a few maps for some RPG publishers. I basically create the entire map in Photoshop, as I do not have access to programs such as Illustrator. Frequently, I will hand-draw elements of the map, but the bulk of the work is completed in Photoshop.

 

[castlewalls]

Such methods astound me as i've practically no rastor experience (their an end product/output for me). I for one, would like to see a small tutorial on how you go about creating a rastor based map (assuming it's an 'exterior' landscape map).
So, if you could manage the time...?