How are you going to fix half-elves?

[Kitirat]

Ok, so I for whatever reason have a beef on the half-elf thing so I figured to go all out and ask others how they plan to fix this sucker of a race.

We now have final confirmation of:
+2 Con (yes CON!), +2 Chr
+2 diplomacy and insight
+1 to diplomacy for others
Can use human and elf feats (i.e. human feats, since elf feat relate to their elven accuracy ability which the half-elves do not have).
Get an at-will from another class as an encounter power.

From playtest reports they used to be much better, allowing multi-classing of 2 classes and starting with a full multi-classing feat before getting nerfed to the bottom of the racial genepool. They had a floating stat and got Con (the dump stat of 4th ed). Why all the hate?

From what I can see there is very little reason to play one over a human, who can basically sacrifice a +2 in Con for an extra skill and having their extra power be at will (since they need to use a multi-class feat to get the at-will as encounter feat).

My initial thoughts are:
Make +2 to con instead floating (players choice to any non-chr stat)
and
Allow them to take two class specific multi-class feats

Anyone else?

 

[Dark080matter]

To tell the truth, I am personally still impressed by how many versatile options a 1/2 Elf player can pick up with that Encounter power, especially now that we know it's not limited to within the same power source. While the Human receives another At-Will, the fact it's within the same class keeps it of limited additional usefulness (altho I still consider that to be a very cool racial ability as well, especially for Clerics and Wizards or other classes with very diverse sets of At-Will powers)

Anyway, for the homebrew setting I am DMing I think I will make it a +2 Cha, +2 floating bonus... and might just leave it at that. I think getting TWO extra multi-class feats in exchange for the racial Encounter power would be more than a little excessive, but for a character who already knows they want to multi-class I might maybe give them the first Class Training feat free... gonna have to think about that a bit though.

 

[Terramotus]

I'll be most likely giving them an additional multiclass feat, the one that grants the class abilities, in addition to the at-will as an encounter power, both being required to be from the same class. That is, as long as the class feature feats aren't crazy-powerful. That makes them interesting and something I would want to play.

The addition of that seems like it's probably enough to me. I don't think I see a need to turn the Con bonus into a floating bonus. I kinda like it, actually; it's almost like a hybrid vigor, such as with mules. It also no longer seems too out-of-this-world, since there's no stat penalty to Con for elves.

I don't think I'll add anything about the option of a third multiclass. There seems to be a pretty big opportunity cost for multiclassing in 4E, since you're just swapping powers. And anyway, the Paragon Paths potentially allow multiclassing with a still different class, if my understanding is correct.

I don't think being able to have powers from yet a fourth or even fifth class (1 racial, 1-2 through feats, 1 paragon path) is a very great racial ability due to the limited number of powers, and any use derived from it is probably going to be some bizarre combination that really circumvents the system.

 

[bert1000]

Prob. floating +2 ability AND free feat

Ignoring skill bonuses, vision (which are same),

COMPARE TO ELDRAIN (read Eldrain get = half-elf equivalent)
+ 1 trained skill = ?
longsword prof = group diplomacy
+1 will, +5 charm = ?
Trance, Fey origin = can use human/elf feats
Teleport = 1/2 elf at will encounter

I figure the floating +2 and a feat will get them close to +1 trained skill, +1 will defense. +5 save against

COMPARE TO ELF:
+1 movement =?
longbow/shortbow prof, Fey origin = can use human /elf feats
Group awareness = group diplomacy
Wild step =?
Eleven accuracy = 1/2 elf at will encounter

So again, I think the floating +2 and a feat is equivalent to +1 movement, wild step

COMPARE TO HUMAN (now not ignoring vision, skill bonus):
+1 defenses = +2 Con
+2 floater stat = +2 Cha
+1 at will class power = 1/2 elf at will encounter
+1 feat = group diplomacy, can use human/elf feats, low light vision
+1 trained skill in class = +2 diplomacy, +2 insight

Hmm, this is a slightly harder comparison. Human is slighly better with the floater stat, and the extra feat beats out the 3 items listed in my mind. So, again I am ok with the floater stat and free feat fix.

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

I was thinking about removing the encounter-only restriction on the extra at-will power. That might be too good. I'll have to digest the rules more before making a decision.

 

[Kobu]

The +2 to anything instead of Con is not a bad idea. I would have liked to see some sort of encounter power like a reroll on a saving throw.

 

[Kaodi]

That bonus at-will that human gets from their main class may not seem that special, until they multiclass instead of taking a paragon path and substitute an at-will from their second class for one from their first. Any other race would be left with one in the first and one in the second, yet a human gets two in the first and one in the second. That is probably even more significant if your base class is one that needs an at-will to make basic attacks, like the wizard.

 

[splotch]

I have been complaining that the half-elf needed the floating ability bonus or the ability to get a free class feature of a second class ever since it became fairly clear that they were getting +2 Con, +2 Cha. However, now that it is really confirmed that they aren't getting the floating ability bonus or the free class feature from a second class, I have started to come to terms with this.

My focus has shifted from worrying too much about what half-elves aren't getting to what they can do that no other race can. Remember, that you can only take one class-specific multiclass feat. Therefore, half-elves are the only race that can have powers from three classes. They can have the powers of their original class, the at-will-as encounter power from a second class that they get as a racial feature, and the power they get from a third class into which they can multiclass using the class-specific multiclassing feat.

Even if they take that class-specific multiclassing feat in the same class from which they took their racial cross class at-will-as-encounter power they will have something no other race can boast, two at-will as encounter powers from a second class. The most any other race can get is one of those through the one class-specific multiclassing feat they can take. Furthermore, not every class-specific multiclassing feat grants an at-will-as-encounter from the second class or gives you flexibility in which at-will to take as an encounter power. The cleric and warlord class-specific multiclass feats give you healing word and inspiring word as daily powers, while the paladin, ranger and rogue class-specific multiclass feats require that you take the at-will powers divine challenge, hunter's quarry and sneak attack as encounter powers. Only the wizard and warlock class-specific multiclass feats give you flexibility.

If you want the flexibility of choosing any at-will power from cleric, paladin, ranger, rogue or warlord as an encounter power you will need to be a half-elf to do it. Granted you can take an at-will from another class as an at-will as part of the multiclass paragon path replacement, but that doesn't start until eleventh level. Therefore the most deep and flexible multiclassing can only be accomplished by a half-elf. I trust WotC to some extent to have worked very hard to balance the half-elf against other races and given that there are things only they can do, I wouldn't want to mess with them too much and I'm afraid going to a floating bonus or a bonus feat might be too much.

However, I would still like to think of something to give them more of a special flavor. The problem is I still don't know what it should be. Perhaps it could be something like a floating +2 to any one skill besides diplomacy and insight. This would be less than a feat which as I understand it would give +5 to one skill, but might allow some more creative character design in terms of making the character good at what he or she should be good at particularly in terms of multiclassing. I don't know yet whether this idea is flavorful enough, so I'm interested to hear other ones on this thread.

 

[Kitirat]

Half-Elves, what I did.

Changed the following:

Ability Scores: +2 Charisma, +2 to ability score of choice other than Charisma.

Added the following:

Hybrid Synergy: You gain the Hybrid Synergy racial encounter power.

HYBRID SYNERGY RACIAL POWER
You are well suited to adapting your abilities to the situation.
Encounter
Immediate Interrupt…Melee…Personal
Trigger: Use an action point.
Effect: Whenever you use an action point, you may recharge an encounter power gained from the Dilettante special ability or any Multi-classing feat. If the encounter would normally allow multiple uses, you only regain one use back.

All other aspects as per the PHB.

Ok so why? I looked at this from the perspective of elf/human mix with multiclassing. Humans have extra at-wills, elves rerolls, mix them and you get an extra encounter power ever two encounters (i.e. mix of reroll and at-will powers). Make it only for off-class powers and you have the best multi-classer.

The floating stat may be too much but we will see. I would take it over a human if I was multi-classing across three classes but not otherwise.

Thoughts from anyone?

 

[Kitirat]

wow, getting moved to the homebrew board is the same thing as killing the thread.