How awesome is resurrection in 13th Age???

[Dungeoneer]

The first time I read the rules for the cleric's resurrection spell in 13th Age, I was cackling with glee. I love everything about 13A resurrection. I love that it's not a free get-out-of-death pass. I love that there are consequences for using it. I love that there are really cool story implications, not just for characters but for the whole world.

Let me do a quick summary of the rules for resurrection in 13A:

- Clerics can only cast res once per level.
- Clerics (or ANY other character or NPC!) can only cast res five times IN THEIR LIFE.
- The fifth time a character casts res, THEY WILL DIE.

But I'm getting ahead of things. Here is how it goes for the first four castings:

- First casting: Takes one standard action. The target is brought back to life in normal condition, or possibly dazed and missing some recoveries if the DM prefers.
- Second casting: The spell takes three to four rounds. It costs the caster half their hit points, dailies and spells. The target comes back at 1/4 strength.
- Third casting: The spell must be cast as a ritual. It drains the caster down to a few hit points. The resurrectee takes days to recover.
- Fourth casting: The spell nearly kills the caster. The person resurrected is 'a mess for a month or more'.
- Fifth casting: The caster DIES. They cannot be resurrected. The spell has only a 50% chance of working.

And in a final twist:

- IF the target of the res spell has been res'd more times than the caster has cast the spell, there is a 50% chance that the experience will play out using the number of the target's res's. So if the target is on their fifth res, the caster may wind up dead even if it is their first.

This is why your mother warned you never to res strangers.

In addition to making resurrection more of an adventure for the players, these mechanics have a massive effect on the game world. First of all it means that Icons don't live forever. The Archmage may live a very long time, but after his fifth res even he would have to find someone willing to risk perma-death to bring him back. Also, for obvious reasons, Icons aren't handing out resurrections like candy, no matter how much the PC is their favorite.

In other news, any NPC that CAN res is likely to keep it a deep dark secret. The last thing they want is for some unscrupulous party to force them to use up their precious, precious res quota.

My one complaint is that res is a 7th level spell. I say, why wait until level 7 to start the fun?!?

Has anyone had resurrection come up in your 13A game yet? What do you think of the res rules?

ETA:Per Tequila Sunrise, I should mention that there is no monetary cost associated with resurrection per the rules-as-written. Of course the DM could choose to impose such costs.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

Hmmh. While the concept of consequences for such a spell is cool, I don't like the idea of tracking stuff over a character's lifetime.

Are there other ways to bring back the dead in 13A, so this is mainly for the adventuring use?

Are there other elements in the game which require long-term tracking?

 

[Dungeoneer]

Hmmh. While the concept of consequences for such a spell is cool, I don't like the idea of tracking stuff over a character's lifetime.

Are there other ways to bring back the dead in 13A, so this is mainly for the adventuring use?

Are there other elements in the game which require long-term tracking?

Resurrection is really the only thing tracked over a character's lifetime. And since it is presumably going to be a pretty memorable event, I don't see that that should be an issue.

As always, this is 13A so you can rule it however you want. If you want to follow the rules in the book, the res rules strongly imply that resurrection in ANY form counts towards the total for a character. It explicitly mentions that the rules apply to res-ing with magic items, among other things.

 

[BigbyBear]

Another part I really like that you didn't mention is it's VERY hard to resurrect a fifth time because you get 4 levels, 7-8-9-10. So if you even want to try that fifth resurrection you need to sacrificing something big and important, like an artifact.

So even if you have some sycophant willing to sac his life for you. It's still a big quest and a major event.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Color me nonplussed. Even being a memorable event, I'd still want players to track their res count -- assuming I enforced this rule at all -- as I've found that even well-intentioned players can forget surprisingly memorable events. Myself included. Also, I can't say that I want death to be such a to-do. Seems like this "You only have five lives" stuff is equally likely to result in players treating their characters as disposable toons than learning to 'respect' death. Having to cough up a good chunk of hard-won loot is cost enough, IMO. (Does death still have a monetary cost in 13A?) Anyway, to each their own. A 13A DM can always simply house rule this stuff away, but then that's true of any rpg. PS: Sorry for the wall of text; the return button on this keyboard is dead.

 

[Dungeoneer]

Color me nonplussed. Even being a memorable event, I'd still want players to track their res count -- assuming I enforced this rule at all -- as I've found that even well-intentioned players can forget surprisingly memorable events. Myself included.

I suppose that's true. But it would be pretty trivial to track. I usually keep some general campaign notes, I'd just stash it in there.

Also, I can't say that I want death to be such a to-do. Seems like this "You only have five lives" stuff is equally likely to result in players treating their characters as disposable toons than learning to 'respect' death. Having to cough up a good chunk of hard-won loot is cost enough, IMO. (Does death still have a monetary cost in 13A?) Anyway, to each their own. A 13A DM can always simply house rule this stuff away, but then that's true of any rpg.

Death in 13A has no monetary cost. You're just dead and you roll a new character. I really think that this res system will have the opposite of the effect you're talking about. First of all, the players are aware of the res rules and know that they can be, in the BEST CASE SCENARIO, res'd five times. That right there will make their characters' lives the opposite of disposable.

In addition, the limitations by level and total res spells performed means the party's cleric isn't really going to res you that many times. If somebody else already bought the farm that level presumably the cleric has already spent their res on them. And if the cleric is approaching their lifetime res limit they are going to be very reluctant to cast the spell at all.

And good luck finding some NPC cleric who will perform a res for you. They will probably keep the fact that they can even do such a thing a deep dark secret, an even should the PCs find out, the NPC is very unlikely to want to sacrifice one of their lifetime castings for them.

The rules do the opposite of making resurrection cheap: they make it extraordinarily costly for the party, at least after the first one.

 

[Nagol]

I think Tequila Sunrises's point was more that the players will consider their characters disposable and not attempt to return to life in and opt to simply roll new characters when the inevitable strikes.

Some play styles place a greater emphasis on character continuity than this rule can support -- in a game system where death is a simple to inflict as D&D traditionally has been at least.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Death in 13A has no monetary cost. You're just dead and you roll a new character.

My bad, I meant ask whether res still has a monetary cost.

I really think that this res system will have the opposite of the effect you're talking about. First of all, the players are aware of the res rules and know that they can be, in the BEST CASE SCENARIO, res'd five times...

...The rules do the opposite of making resurrection cheap: they make it extraordinarily costly for the party, at least after the first one.

Best of luck to you, but I think many players will realize that while res's are more costly, rolling up Bob the Fighter XIV is easy as ever. And that's strong incentive to treat Bob I as a disposable toon.

It may not be a big issue if 13A and/or your DM style result in rare character death. So again, best of luck!

 

[Dungeoneer]

I think Tequila Sunrises's point was more that the players will consider their characters disposable and not attempt to return to life in and opt to simply roll new characters when the inevitable strikes.

Some play styles place a greater emphasis on character continuity than this rule can support -- in a game system where death is a simple to inflict as D&D traditionally has been at least.

Ah, okay, I see what you two are getting at.

My bad, I meant ask whether res still has a monetary cost.

I don't believe it has a cost. At least not when cast in spell form. The third casting onward must be performed as a ritual instead of a simple spell, so presumably the GM could impose a cost at that point.

Best of luck to you, but I think many players will realize that while res's are more costly, rolling up Bob the Fighter XIV is easy as ever. And that's strong incentive to treat Bob I as a disposable toon.

It may not be a big issue if 13A and/or your DM style result in rare character death. So again, best of luck!

It's hard for me to say how rare character death is in 13A. But I don't think rolling up disposable iterations of the same character is going to be an option in most cases. I mean, first of all, the DM would have to allow it. Would you?!

Secondly, unlike in D&D characters have mechanical links to the game world and story: Icon relationships, backgrounds and 'One Unique Thing'. Character OUT's ought to cut-down on cookie-cutter characters since pretty much by definition you shouldn't have two characters with the same 'unique' thing. More importantly, these mechanics should ideally make the player more invested in their character and in the game world. A player's OUT is explicitly intended to give them some design input into the world, and Icon roles give them some influence on how the story plays out.

Nagol is right that in some types of games, and 13A could definitely be one, character death might really throw people for a loop. 13A features an optional rule where characters can only be killed by Named Villains. This rule doesn't appeal to me personally, but I suppose in a long campaign where people were heavily invested in their characters it might be worth considering.

 

[Crothian]

I don't have 13A so I'm just reacting to what's been said here.

With the resurrection rules and knowing them from the beginning or the camping it is pretty easy thing to keep track of unless the players and GM are just lazy. If it makes you feel like the character only has five lives then the normal D&D way of unlimited Raise Deads must seem like you entered a cheat for infinite lives. I like that there is a limit on it. But there is another rule one needs to known to really understand what how the limit works and that is if you come back as a new character how is that going to work? Personally, I like to make players come back in with first level characters so they don't get to just skip ahead. It can be hard in some campaign but with the seemingly 10 level limit of 13A it is probably more doable. Knowing that a player has to start again at the beginning make resurrection more likely a choice and then make these rules more meaningful. Fearing their character death is not a bad thing and can make players play not so carelessly with their characters.