How bad does the bard suck?

[Geron Raveneye]

Ah, back to stoke the flames a bit more before they die down completely? What makes me wonder, to be honest, is why you still post polls when you are not interested in the results at all. No matter how many people vote "against" your premise, and how many come in telling of their positive experiences and explaining their points, all you do is either tell them off, try to ridicule their positions, or claim that you can build a better bard with all kinds of weird multiclassing with dubious and situational results in most cases.

So what's the point in your polls? Looking at the whole thing, noting the fact that you open it with "Let the hatemongering begin", all that springs to mind is that you come here to spray some vitriol around, and choose the Bard class as "flame war hook" to do so.

 

[Klaus]

[quote = Firebeetle]So I’m supposed to carry two suits of armor around like summer and winter jackets? It takes several minutes to change, not exactly convenient given most combats don't give minutes to prepare. None of the other classes have to carry two suits of armor around! Yes, we’ve established that I can use spells to improve my effectiveness, so can a (in alphabetical order) cleric, druid, paladin, ranger, sorcerer, and wizard. Often to far greater effect.

As for the cure spell thing, can someone please tell me WHY bards have Cure spells? What legendary bard could also Cure Serious Wounds? Anyone? Anyone? It certainly seems out of character. Oh, wait, I know why. It’s because the designers know that BARDS SUCK and they give them a little stick, a little bone there to make us feel better. Having said that, I have started using cure spells in my high level campaign. They help. A jester casting a cure spell sure seems weird though.[/quote]

Huh? Two suits of armor?

Dude, CHOOSE a role, and the bard can fill it without much trouble. If you want a Bard in the front lines, don a Mithril Breastplate and wield that rapier with Weapon Finesse. The +5 AC from the breastplate, coupled with your decent Dex, protects you a lot, and lets you assist the Fighter and the Rogue on the front line.

If, OTOH, you want a stealthy guy, you do an armor with 0 Armor Check Penalty and sneak about as well as a rogue (with the added benefit of having spells like Invisibility in your repertoire).

 

[Fishbone]

Haven't we fed this troll enough? The fact that the only times bards are ever complained about its only to start up an ego stroking flamefest that has pages upon pages of rebuttals and positive experiences saying they don't suck...
well, that speaks volumes about their actual quality.

 

[werk]

Bards suck so bad they blow.

 

[Sejs]

You know that’s totally weird, because I find being effective as a bard means being somebody else, as per the prior response.

Yeah, I pretty much figure we're not going to get anywhere new on this one as both our positions remain unchanged.

Ablative hit points, few feats to augment bardic music, spells that focus on debuffing, making you wish you'd never been born, etc, etc. Gnoll with a banjo, you know the schpiel

 

[Darklone]

Cool. Next time I play a gnoll bard with a banjo!

YMMV= Your mileage may vary.

I didn't need 12 players groups to make my bard effective. In 12 player groups, the bard was king. Only one who got close was the cleric with his puny Bless spell that sucks in comparison.

Still noone answered why Bless was supposed to be better than Inspire Courage?

The only weak point I see about bards: They rock when multiclassed ... single-classed they lack... flavor.

 

[Retreater]

You miss a very important point. The bards light armour can be enchanted with magic - so what starts off as +4 armour from a chain shirt could turn into +9 armour from a chain shirt +5 with light fortification, silent moves and fire resistance, for instance.

Good luck doing that with mage armour.

Point is that a chain shirt +5 with light fortification, silent moves, and fire resistance is expensive. 58,000 gp by my calculations. Since most characters will never have a magic item this powerful, I think it's safe to say that mage armor is as good as (if not better) than a mundane chain shirt.

Hehehe. Yeah, PS, I tried to explain that to him by using the Celestial chainmail as example... but he didn't understand.

Yeah. It's also more expensive, *much* more expensive than a single casting of mage armor. See the point I made above.

Just because I don't like the bard class doesn't mean that I don't understand the game. In fact, I'd say that I understand it quite well.

Retreater

 

[Darklone]

It's not a single casting of mage armor. It's one casting often more than once per day with less effect to your AC. At higher levels where people don't care whether they spend a low level spell slot, it's easily dispelled.

I can't believe that I have to explain why being able to cast in light armor is a good thing.

I feel trolled. As if someone tells me that Rage isn't worth it because it lowers your AC.

 

[Sejs]

Yeah. It's also more expensive, *much* more expensive than a single casting of mage armor. See the point I made above.

Right, but we're not really talking about a single casting of mage armor. We're talking about one, possibly several castings per day, every day, pretty much for the duration of your whole career. Duration lapses and dispels.

Material armor is more costly, but it's more reliable.

 

[Felix]

EDIT

You know what, nevermind. There's no point in participating in this.