How bad does the bard suck?

[Darklone]

Bard is IMHO by far the best multiclass class. A few levels bard and you can save your party in many many situations. Played a level 7 bard multiclass thing in a group with two other "noobs" (level 6 and 5) and three "old pros" (level 9-12). After half a year the group started to rely on my bard to save the day with some weird idea or action. One year later it went too far... and the bard died in a battle against a bone devil cause he went into melee against a level 10 fighter to save the level 5 monk. Well, it worked, the fighter went down as well.

Ever played a bard in big groups? 9 - 12 players? Count how often that +1 from Inspire Courage changed a miss into a hit or caused the final point of damage. Simply lean back and enjoy, your bard wins the day.

Edit: This may sound a little bit aggressive... but in my experience bards are horribly effective when played by creative imaginative players (even without rules knowledge) or horribly boring and very fast dead when played by CRPG dudes or "simple" players. YMMV.

 

[drothgery]

If you focus on the buff/social skills role and use stuff from the ECS and CArc, then bards aren't so bad (I'm playing one right now). But it's not an easy class to kick butt and take names with, and even when you're contributing a lot, it's often subtle (though between a Inspirational Boosted, ECS-feat boosted Inspire Courage, Haste, and Inspire Greatness, my party's front-line warriors are often picking up a +8 to hit/+4 to damage/+1 AC due to their gnomish friend).

 

[Wyrm Pilot]

I voted "Bards don't suck," but please disregard the "people don't play them right" clause -- I've seen many people play them right (in Living Greyhawk, the Duchy of Urnst has no shortage of bard PC's!), and I've even seen some people play them "wrong" and still not suck. Maybe it's your group that has a problem, not the class...

Cheers,
Wyrm Pilot

 

[Sejs]

Ah, this again.

Bards don't suck. Still.

Bards that focus on being bards and not trying to be somebody else do damn well.

 

[two]

new bard stuff

A core bard is pretty weak. An Eberron bard using Complete Arcane or Spell Compendium is very powerful indeed. In our experience _too_ powerful. Not quite Bo9S too powerful, but close. +3 attack and damage to the whole party at level 3 is HUGE, even just once a day.

Mark

Core bard (SRD) is not weak but very difficult to min/max. Still gets some excellent defensive spells (mirror image, alter self), but difficult to make a powerhouse - not impossible.

Each new addition to the D&D family has made the bard more powerful.

Particularly the feats which increase inspire greatness (or spells). Do some basic piling on, getting +3/+3 or +3/+4 at 3rd level (using an instrument) and the bard honestly becomes extremely powerful - almost overwhelming at that low level. But that's a very simple and VERY effective trick. Pile on the inspire greatness more, even get an item created which boosts it more, and you are the party's best friend for every level up to and including 20.

Plus full caster = full dispel magic and other benefits, which are sometimes subtle.

 

[Mr. Beef]

I just like to bring up this point from time to time, about how much my favorite class, the bard, sucks in 3e. Please feel free to give your response to this topic below. To answer a few questions/accusations preemptively-

1. I do not hate bards, I love them. That is why I cry because they suck.
2. I do play them right, in fact, I amaze people all the time with how effective I can make a bard in both terms of game mechanics and roleplay.
3. I do not believe bards shine only in roleplay heavy/investigative scenarios. I have proven time and again that if you want to make a Bluff, Gather Information, Diplomacy king you are better off with other classes. BARDS RECEIVE NO BUFFS TO THESE SKILLS OR ABILITIES! Bards should shine in all scenarios and campaigns just like any other class.

1. It's good to love at least one class in D&D 3.0/3.5. While the one I like may be the sux, the fighter, the Bard is actually a pretty good class. They can be a back up healer, booster to attacks and damage, and get you all sorts of good information thanks to Bardic Knowledge.

2. It's good that you can play the Bard right because I have seen some Bards played badly. I know I cannot play anything other than a combat class like the fighter, and talk about your shafted class all they get is the next to highest HP's, a free Feat from a limited list of feats and 2+int modifier skill points from their base and their skill selection stinks.

3. There are buffing feats for those skills you listed above, at least 2 in the PHB and possibly more in other Splatbooks. I think the only other class that gets Bluff, Gather Information and Diplomacy as class skills is the Rogue. The Fighter, Monk, Wizard, Druid do not get those as class skills and the other classes only get only 1 or 2 of those skills as class skills.

Let the hatemongering begin!

Beef does not hate. Beef appreciates.

Just my 1/4 pound.

Mr. Beef

 

[Darklone]

... wall of beef spell ...

 

[Thanee]

Bards are definitely the best at being bards.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Darklone]

Bards are definitely the best at being bards.

Bye
Thanee

You're joking.

 

[pawsplay]

I played a bard (under 3.0, without armored casting) who did duty as a healer, a negotiator, and a front line fighter. He landed the killing blow on an adult blue dragon. I think people are prejudiced against bards because you don't see "big numbers". Instead, you get a +1 here, a +3 there, a decent armored class, some buffs, a couple of handy offensive spells, etc. A good bard is synergistic.