D&D 5E (2024) How can I do a Charisma-Investigation (or a Strength/Dexterity-Investigation if I can't use Charisma) to find a secret door?

[Maxperson]

But it is not your character. The player chooses how to play the character, not the DM. That is the basic premise of player agency.

It doesn't have to make sense to you, it has to make sense to them!

Agency only exists while you are there playing the character. You the player make the choices about what the character says and does. If you are absent, you are not available to have agency.

 

[Maxperson]

And having someone else play a PC when the player does not agree to it is NOT one of the ways mentioned.

Now that may be how it is done at your table or in your game; but kill them or kick them out if they don't want someone else to play their character is NOT mentioned as one of the ways to deal with this in the 2024 rules.

There are no rules on it at all in 5.5e. Like at all. The 5.5e DM on page 24 opens with...

"When one of your players is absent, what do you do with that player's character? Consider the following options."

All three of those are options, and they are non-exhaustive options which the DM can consider. None of them are rules. Rules are not options and require a house rule to overcome.

 

[ECMO3]

There are no rules on it at all in 5.5e. Like at all. The 5.5e DM on page 24 opens with...

"When one of your players is absent, what do you do with that player's character? Consider the following options."

All three of those are options, and they are non-exhaustive options which the DM can consider. None of them are rules. Rules are not options and require a house rule to overcome.

Yes, all three are options and NONE of them say you can let someone play another player without their permission, nor do they say you should kill a character who chooses to stay behind with Wandering Monsters.

As DM you are free to do any of these things or anything else you want: Automatically killing someone who misses a session or have someone else play their PC without the players permission, are NOT presented as options in the rules.

You are free to do it if you want.

As far as rules,the method I use IS mentioned in the official 2024 rules . You can stand behind that strawman all you want and say technically they are not "rules" but they are as a point of fact in the "rulebook".

You spend half a dozen threads telling me I was doing it wrong before I pointed out this is in the rules. Now I am telling you that your method is wrong. Sure it is allowed, but is still wrong. If you want me to say your way is ok then go back and edit every one of your older posts and admit you were wrong when you were trying to tell me how to do it.

Because that it what this is really about - you were trying to tell me how wrong my way was until I pointed out it was in the DMG.

 

[kermit4karate]

Yes, all three are options and NONE of them say you can let someone play another player without their permission, nor do they say you should kill a character who chooses to stay behind with Wandering Monsters.

As DM you are free to do any of these things or anything else you want: Automatically killing someone who misses a session or have someone else play their PC without the players permission, are NOT presented as options in the rules.

You are free to do it if you want.

The DM can interpret, create or ignore anything within the entirety of the rules. Their purview isn't limited to a blurb about player absences during campaigns.

 

[ECMO3]

Agency only exists while you are there playing the character. You the player make the choices about what the character says and does. If you are absent, you are not available to have agency.

Yes and if you say my character does not continue with the rest of the party while I am gone, then she doesn't.

Nothing about player agency only applies when you are physically at the table. I mean if I go and grab a coke out of the refrigerator or run to the bathroom can the DM or another player do what they want because I am absent?

 

[ECMO3]

The DM can interpret, create or ignore anything within the entirety of the rules. Their purview isn't limited to a blurb about player absences during campaigns.

Absolutely they can. The DM can just flat out kill any character who has to miss a session and does not want someone else playing their character.

I agree 100%, they can do it. It is not presented as an option in the rulebook though.

I also love how this entire thread has changed from people telling me I was doing it wrong to now trying to defend other methods when I pointed out mine IS presented in the rules.

 

[ECMO3]

I'm running the game, so it has to make sense to me too. Otherwise I can't adjudicate events fairly.

That is rediculous. Making sense has nothing to do with being fair and there are a ton of rules and abilitis for that matter that "make no sense"

It is extremely to be fair - just accept that it is a game and let all your players do it. Your inability to suspend disbelief or accept these very small and specific details (while you easily accept others) has no effect on that.

Killing a player because they want to miss a session is not being fair to that player and their role in the game.

You can disagree with that, but you are not going to change my mind.

 

[kermit4karate]

Yes and if you say my character does not continue with the rest of the party while I am gone, then she doesn't.

Nothing about player agency only applies when you are physically at the table. I mean if I go and grab a coke out of the refrigerator or run to the bathroom can the DM or another player do what they want because I am absent?

Yes, but in this hypothetical, why would they? The rules allow the DM to alter the physics of reality in the game, turn everyone to stone, make humans immortal, teleport someone to Mars (even create Mars on the Material Plane), you name it.

But why would they go after your character when you grab a Coke?

 

[ECMO3]

But why would they go after your character when you grab a Coke?

The same reason they would go after them if a player had to stay at work late and missed a session. I don't know why a DM would do either of those things in a friendly game, but clearly some on this board see no problem with that kind of behavior.

Either is fine it is their game though and that is how they want to play.

 

[kermit4karate]

The same reason they would go after them if a player had to stay at work late and missed a session. I don't know why a DM would do either of those things in a friendly game, but clearly some on this board see no problem with that.

You don't own your player in your DM's game. You own them when you're away from it, but within the game, it isn't yours.

If it makes you feel better, if your DM commandeers your character while you're away from the game, you could tell yourself they were using a doppelgänger and you still control the original.

Of course, when you want to rejoin the game, you might have to deal with an angry DM and your evil doppelgänger.