How can I make money interesting?

[DracoSuave]

Oh something to note.

If the only magic items available are thru parcels then pcs will be behind the curve.

By lvl4 the 3 enhancement slots should be filled and youre moving on to +2 upgrades. You cant fill 15 slots with 12 items.

What parcels represent are your ability to attain higher level items. Anything your level or lower should be available one way or another.

The gp part of treasure is meant to go towards this.

Its less of a store and more like a black market.

 

[Dannager]

So your advice to him is that he should stop playing the way he does and start playing the way you do

Yes. Is that odd, somehow? It is my opinion (and, judging by responses from others, the opinion of many who have posted in this thread) that the problem he is experiencing is a direct result of his decision not to provide ways for his PCs to spend their money. My advice was to provide ways for his PCs to spend their money - ways like allowing PCs to buy magic items in town, an option that the 4e game assumes the PCs will have.

My advice is for him to play the way I do (and, I would point out, the way most 4e games are probably played, at least in terms of how PCs buy gear), not because it's how I play, but because it's how the system is set up. If he's using the wealth formula assumed in the game, he needs to understand that said formula is set up with the assumption that PCs will be able to buy magic items with the gold they receive.

and your advice to jbear is to stop treating residuum like treasure because ... I'm not sure why ... it offends your sensibilities?

No, that wasn't my advice. jbear claimed that gold could be freely exchanged for residuum. This carries the implication that buying residuum with gold is part of the game's rules. I was pointing out that this is not, in fact, part of the game's rules, and then explained why it's not a part of the game's rules. He may have his reasons for house-ruling that residuum can be purchased, and that's fine if his game is running smoothly.

Contrast this with my advice to huank, who explained that his game was not running smoothly, and then asked for advice.

I actually think the "residuum as currency" idea has legs and encourages ritual use.

I think it might, too. It's worth exploring; in fact, the idea of selling residuum for 2gp per 1gp worth is attractive - you pay a premium, but you gain the fungibility that residuum provides over specific reagents.

I also think that some people (myself included) don't like characters being able to load up on magic items whenever they feel like it.

And that's fine. Of course, the wealth distribution in 4e doesn't allow players to load up on magic items anyway, since they receive relatively little gold. But if you are using the treasure parcel system, you ought to allow the PCs to purchase magic items. If you are hellbent on not allowing this, you need to use a different treasure system, or you need to accept that your PCs will have lots of gold and no way to spend it. Your call.

The OP is asking for ideas, not criticism.

And I gave him an idea: allow PCs to buy magic items in town. This is, inarguably, an idea. It is also criticism, of a sort, but that's how it goes.

I think that you just don't like me throwing that idea around, because you disagree with its ramifications.

 

[Dannager]

I once read another thread, where most people told that magic items shouldn't be available in common armories or weaponsmiths because parties could get overpowered...

Those people are silly.

Just make sure you follow the restrictions the game provides: PCs can only purchase common items (no uncommon items, rare items, artifacts, or intelligent items) - note: the developers have made it clear that currently they don't think there are enough non-uncommon items to support the rarity system; accordingly, you may want to allow your party to craft (via Enchant Magic Item) or purchase uncommon items in addition to common items.

Heck, the DMG even notes that if you decide not to let the party purchase magic items, you should consider removing the component cost for Enchant Magic Item so that they can make their magic gear themselves.

So I thought that made sense and that maybe the only magic items they should get, are the ones noted in the parcel part of the DMG... But then, I started looking at this “money sucks problem”, and that's why I want to improve it. So, are you sure that my PC's won't be overpowered if a start putting magic items as part of the purchasable stuff of a store?

I'm sure. If anything, a party that isn't allowed to buy magic items will be underpowered, because the game's math assumes that an adventuring party will buy roughly two magic items at each level. If the party isn't able to do so, they will have missed out on roughly 60 magic items by the time they reach level 30.

 

[jbear]

A quick note: gold cannot be freely exchanged for residuum. Residuum is typically only obtained through the disenchantment of magic items. Gold can be exchanged for specific types of reagents (each tailored to a specific skill), but residuum is supposed to be a sort of all-purpose reagent and is thus not normally sold (it would make buying individual reagents pointless).

Err ... interesting I'm sure ... but I don't care. In my game, I do as I please in so far as anything to do with objects, buying and selling. As you yourself point out, each person does this kind of thing their own way.

As you also point out the tracking of encumbrance, items etc can be nothing more than a boring hassle unless you are policing it and restricting it. I do neither because I do find it boring and I know my players would too.

The same goes for reageants. My PCs use so few rituals, anything to encourage it is good. Simpler = better, and in this case, simpler = directly purchasing residuum.

So "can't" here is about as useful or precise as "as you know".

 

[Dannager]

Err ... interesting I'm sure ... but I don't care. In my game, I do as I please in so far as anything to do with objects, buying and selling. As you yourself point out, each person does this kind of thing their own way.

And that's fine. The way I read it, it sounded like you were saying that residuum could normally be purchased for gold. I just wanted to clarify that this is a house rule, not something that the game normally supports. If you were just suggesting it as an option, I apologize.

 

[delericho]

If the only magic items available are thru parcels then pcs will be behind the curve.

This is probably, but not universally true.

By lvl4 the 3 enhancement slots should be filled and youre moving on to +2 upgrades. You cant fill 15 slots with 12 items.

Your assumption is that the DM is giving out items at the standard rate.

If the DM is not allowing items to be bought (or sold?), then he should compensate for this by giving out much less gold in treasure, and many more items. He may well also want to tailor those items much more closely to the desires of his players than he would ordinarily do. And he may also want to increase the overall number of treasure parcels as well.

In other words, if he's going to deny PCs the normal and assumed access to items, he probably wants to compensate for this as well.

(Or, of course, he could just accept that his PCs are "behind the curve". Since the characters in his game are only ever going to be matched against the challenges in his game, it doesn't actually matter all that much.)

What parcels represent are your ability to attain higher level items. Anything your level or lower should be available one way or another.

The gp part of treasure is meant to go towards this.

That's the standard assumption, but it doesn't have to be that way.