How Complex Do You Prefer Your TTRPG Systems In General

[Thomas Shey]

I don’t have a complexity preference, I have a preference against unnecessary complexity. And IME, unnecessary complexity usually manifests itself in overly wordy explanations, confusing jargon and verbal imprecision, not mechanics.

It can show up in mechanics, too, though. I’ve seen games where it seemed as if every little thing had its own unique resolution system. Not good, IMHO.

See, I tend to not see complexity and excessive special-casing as the same thing, though I agree that the latter is much more of a problem than the former.

 

[innerdude]

Round Up For GREAT JUSTICE.

Move Zig!

 

[innerdude]

So as far as scaling for this poll, "complexity" is probably a slightly modest bell curve bump.

Complexity scales down faster the farther you move toward 1, and scales up faster the farther you move toward 10.

For example, the complexity of going from scale 0, "Total free form 'Let's Pretend' roleplaying" where folks can literally say anything, to scale 0.5, "Let's at least have an unwritten agreement that we'll keep the fiction plausible," to a scale of 1, "Let's write down 2 basic stats as reference numbers and a core motivation" (e.g. Honey Heist) actually adds slightly more complexity between each scale than it might seem on the surface.

Every introduction of a "rule" doesn't just introduce the rule itself, but all of the assumed interactions between that rule and all other adjacent rules.

Thus, the farther towards the edges of the graph one goes, the more rapidly the complexity ramps or falls.

To me at least, scaling from Pathfinder 2 which sits around a 7.5-7.7 to GURPS at 8.2-8.4 feels like a greater shift in complexity than scaling from Savage Worlds 6 to Pathfinder 2's 7.7.

 

[Ondath]

I voted a 5. I've come to realise that 5e is more or less at the limit of complexity that I can bother with these days, and that I tend to prefer something a smidge less complex ideally.

 

[el-remmen]

For a FRPG, I want slightly more complex than 5E but a lot less complex than 3.xE - which is what I tried to do with my homebrew 5E ruleset. I don't mind a 300-page rulebook as long as most of that is reference material (spells, feats, etc) and not something you must know all of in order to simply run the game. Ideally, my FRPG is significantly lower power (or higher powers having a severe cost) and slightly higher complexity than 5E - which is what I tried to make.

 

[el-remmen]

I wouldn't even give LevelUp a full point boost.

Ha! I was thinking that Level Up was TOO complex for what I want, but I certainly cribbed from it.

 

[Greg K]

I have no idea. Where do Awfully Cheerful Engine/ West End Games's Ghostbusters, Barbarians of Lemuria, Black Star (Lakeside Games), Cortex Plus, Everyday Heroes, Icons: Assembled (Ad Infinitum), Magnum Fury (Lakeside Games), Mutants and Masterminds 2e/3e, Outgunned/Outgunned Adventure (Two Little Mice), Savage Worlds, and Tinyd6 (Gallant Knight Games) rate on the scale? All are fine for me.

 

[aramis erak]

This is a poll.

Using a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is something like no-rules storygaming, 2 is something like Lasers and Feelings, 6 is something like 5E D&D and 10 is Phoenix Command, what (in general*) is your preferred complexity level for TTRPGs?

*I know that we often want different complexity for different kinds of games and purposes, but that is a much harder poll to write. So use your most preferred, or choose option 11.

I voted 5, but I'll note I tolerate to about a 7 if the details are in the right places. (And I don't think D&D 5.X has them in the right places.)I used to tolerate to a 9.0... Phoenix Command broke me. Actually, Phoenix Command's spinoff, Rhand: Morningstar Missions, broke me. (Which has been released both as a standalone RPG and as a PC supplement. Great setting.)
I also will note that I only rank Rolemaster at about a 6, too. It's just table heavy, not complex/hard.
2d20 and YZE are right in my sweet spots these days.

 

[aramis erak]

I have no idea. Where do Awfully Cheerful Engine/ West End Games's Ghostbusters, Barbarians of Lemuria, Black Star (Lakeside Games), Cortex Plus, Everyday Heroes, Icons: Assembled (Ad Infinitum), Magnum Fury (Lakeside Games), Mutants and Masterminds 2e/3e, Outgunned/Outgunned Adventure (Two Little Mice), Savage Worlds, and Tinyd6 (Gallant Knight Games) rate on the scale? All are fine for me.

IMNSHO:
ACE is about a 3.
Cortex Plus about a 5
GBI (since I don't have access to original GB) a 4
BOL about a 3
Savage Worlds about a 5 at core only, 6 with any of several splats in use, especially Deadlands.
Tiny D6 is 2 or 3... depending upon the GM's approach to it.

 

[Vael]

If 5e is a 6, than I'm a 4 or 5. When 5e launched, it was the sweet spot for system complexity, now it's close to the upper limit. Daggerheart is my new sweet spot.