How Complex Do You Prefer Your TTRPG Systems In General

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If it is the first few 4e books vs the core books of 2024 D&D, I think you could make the argument that 4e is simpler.

Right now 2024 D&D definitely feels wonkier at the table.

It's naturally difficult to classify.

The base rules of 4E are fairly simple. But the exception based design of the powers (much like that of spells) adds a lot, and more importantly, during combat, the complexity rises because you have to consider the environment more, with all the area effects and position-changing abilities classes have. A combat on an empty plain, around a camp-fire, near a river, a cliff, on a bridge or a multi-room dungeon would likely play a lot more different then they would in 5e.

Then you have all the modifiers to consider.
DnD 5 combat modifiers are basically advantage, disadvantage, neither. Some of that is elegant, but for my taste it's too little in variety and too much in terms of effect, to be honest, but that's not a complexity issue.
DnD 5 has power bonuses, feat bonuses, untyped bonuses, some of them conditional, and combat advantage. (which is less than 3E with its phletora of typed bonuses).
And then there are all the conditions, and many reactive powers.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I don’t have a complexity preference, I have a preference against unnecessary complexity. And IME, unnecessary complexity usually manifests itself in overly wordy explanations, confusing jargon and verbal imprecision, not mechanics.

It can show up in mechanics, too, though. I’ve seen games where it seemed as if every little thing had its own unique resolution system. Not good, IMHO.

 

[Fenris-77]

It can show up in mechanics, too, though. I’ve seen games where it seemed as if every little thing had its own unique resolution system. Not good, IMHO.

So, like AD&D?

 

[Reynard]

I don’t have a complexity preference, I have a preference against unnecessary complexity. And IME, unnecessary complexity usually manifests itself in overly wordy explanations, confusing jargon and verbal imprecision, not mechanics.

I think of that as a different problem. Bad writing and layout can obfuscate even relatively simple systems, and RPGs are notorious in this regard because there is a long history of pumping the word count.

It can show up in mechanics, too, though. I’ve seen games where it seemed as if every little thing had its own unique resolution system. Not good, IMHO.

So, like AD&D?

I don't think unconnected subsystems built for specific play instances/domains really increase complexity. However, if those systems are constantly in play, then yes. For example, a specific overland travel subsystem does not increase complexity, but a critical hit extravaganza does.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

during combat, the complexity rises because you have to consider the environment more, with all the area effects and position-changing abilities classes have.

My main issue with 4Ed combat was the ephemeral modifiers. That created its own kind of complexity.

Nearly every round, you had to recalculate your bonuses & penalties because they had such short durations. I watched players- usually the more casual gamers- struggle to track plusses and minuses their characters had due to the effects of powers on their PCs.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

So, like AD&D?

Like most editions of D&D- even my preferred 3.5Ed.

 

[cranberry]

Every step you take, every move you make, I'll be rolling dice.

 

[Reynard]

Every step you take, every move you make, I'll be rolling dice.

Ah, move and maneuver rolls from RollMaster!

 

[Tigris]

My main issue with 4Ed combat was the ephemeral modifiers. That created its own kind of complexity.

Nearly every round, you had to recalculate your bonuses & penalties because they had such short durations. I watched players- usually the more casual gamers- struggle to track plusses and minuses their characters had due to the effects of powers on their PCs.

I can see that, I have heard about similar stories, but the thing is, if you have a normal fight and roll 10+ or 4- your modifiers dont matter, unless you have extreme values, so you dont have to calculate them often.

But yeah the small modifiers were too much for sure.

 

[TwoSix]

My main issue with 4Ed combat was the ephemeral modifiers. That created its own kind of complexity.

Nearly every round, you had to recalculate your bonuses & penalties because they had such short durations. I watched players- usually the more casual gamers- struggle to track plusses and minuses their characters had due to the effects of powers on their PCs.

Agreed. Even as an active 4e lover, I do think that was one of the edition's weak points.