D&D 4E How could 4E be more elegant?

[FireLance]

I like caster level stacking like BAB.

My own suggestion for making 4e more elegant: have a small spell list, and allow schools to modify the effect, perhaps as follows:

Basic spell: Magic Attack (Level 1), raw magical energy deals 1d4 points of damage/level (+1d4/2 levels, max 5d4) to a single opponent. Ranged touch attack, opponent may resist with spell resistance.

As a Conjuration (acid) spell: deals acid damage, opponent is not allowed spell resistance.
As a Conjuration (earth) spell: deals bludgeoning damage, damage resistance applies, base damage increases to d8, requires normal ranged attack roll, opponent is not allowed spell resistance.
As a Conjuration (metal) spell: deals piercing damage, damage resistance applies, base damage increases to d8, requires normal ranged attack roll, opponent is not allowed spell resistance.
As a Conjuration (water) spell: deals bludgeoning damage, damage resistance applies, base damage increases to d6, opponent is not allowed spell resistance.
As a Divination spell: gain a +5 insight bonus on ranged attack roll.
As an Enchantment spell: automatically hits, opponent may make a Will save for half damage.
As an Evocation (cold) spell: deals cold damage, base die increases to d6, automatically hits, opponent may make a Fortitude save for half damage.
As an Evocation (electricity) spell: deals electricity damage, base damage increases to d8, automatically hits, opponent may make a Reflex save to negate damage.
As an Evocation (fire) spell: deals fire damage, base damage increases to d6.
As an Evocation (force) spell: deals force damage.
As an Evocation (sound) spell: deals sonic damage, automatically hits, opponent may make a Reflex save for half damage.
As an Illusion spell: automatically hits, base damage increases to d8, opponent may make a Will save to negate damage
As a Necromancy spell: automatically hits, base damage increases to d8, opponent may make a Fortitude save to negate damage
As a Transmutation spell: base damage increases to d8, requires touch attack.

 

[Li Shenron]

Elegant?

IMHO 3ed rules for classes/multiclassing, feats, skills and magic are already elegant. They may not satisfy everyone's taste, especially magic, which perhaps would benefit from a generalization.

But I second that combat actions and special attacks are NOT ALWAYS elegant. Too many action types (and counting) for example. Special attacks that work in a different way and which are still more complicated that it is really worth (grapple! mounted combat!).

A minor change that would please me could be to turn every special attack (sunder, grapple, disarm, trip, aid, feint) into a standard attack action. This would make a lot of issues disappear, because you won't use those special attacks in a full-attack or an AoO.

BTW, I don't think unifying skill is a good idea at all. The skill system was created to have a character differention on a level more fine than just the main stats. If you compress the existing skills, you soon get too close to stats that you need something else for the fine-tuning...

 

[reanjr]

A minor change that would please me could be to turn every special attack (sunder, grapple, disarm, trip, aid, feint) into a standard attack action. This would make a lot of issues disappear, because you won't use those special attacks in a full-attack or an AoO.

Do you mean making them standard as opposed to attack actions? If so, I agree with the goal (avoiding having someone attack, trip, sunder, disarm in a single turn), although I don't know if making them standard actions would be quite right for elegance as you are adding even more actions to the game.

I think a Combat Maneuver action would be a better way of doing it, and each of those things would be one of the things you could do with a combat maneuver. I do think there needs to be a unified way to improve combat maneuvers, though, so that a person can be good or bad at these special techniques seperately from being good or bad at attacking.

 

[Darkness]

Ability Modifiers

No 3-18 ability scores. Just an ability modifier, which in point-buy starts at -1 and scales between -4 and +4 for humans (somewhat akin to the SilCore setup). I'm not sure how to handle the roll xd6, drop lowest stat generation method using this system, though.

Emphasis mine.

Either look up the roll in a table:

3d6 result: Ability modifier
3: -4
4-5: -3
6-7: -2
8-9: -1
10-11: +0
12-13: +1
14-15: +2
16-17: +3
18: +4

Or use a formula. Ability modifier = (3d6-10)/2, rounded down.

 

[Li Shenron]

Do you mean making them standard as opposed to attack actions? If so, I agree with the goal (avoiding having someone attack, trip, sunder, disarm in a single turn), although I don't know if making them standard actions would be quite right for elegance as you are adding even more actions to the game.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Perhaps I have in mind a different sort of "elegance" but I would like such a change both because it is easy to play (you don't have to remember which is an attack and which is a separate action), and because it avoids lots of arguments when it comes to AoOs and full-attacks.

You don't really need a new action for each. Just say that with the standard action "attack" you can do either normal or special attacks. Instead, the full-action "full attack" would simply say that you can do only normal attacks.

 

[arscott]

Basic-Advanced-Prestige classes a la d20Modern/Urban Arcana

 

[Frostmarrow]

I seem to remember that in the old days you had character levels, dungeon stories, and spell ranks. It got decided to change everything to levels.

Any grognards around to verify?

 

[Darkness]

I seem to remember that in the old days you had character levels, dungeon stories, and spell ranks. It got decided to change everything to levels.

One issue of Order of the Stick made light of that - i.e., confusion of character level vs. dungeon level.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I seem to remember that in the old days you had character levels, dungeon stories, and spell ranks. It got decided to change everything to levels.

Any grognards around to verify?

I'm a grognard and it wasn't ever like that. Levels all round, baby!

 

[NewJeffCT]

From a DM's perspective - make it easier to create NPCs on the fly. Maybe it's just that the system is only 4 year old or so after 20+ years in the old system; maybe it's just that we're older now; but, it does not seem to be as easy to create a couple of random NPCs on the fly... how to do it, I have no idea? Maybe collapsing skills & feats like some above have suggested?