D&D 4E How could 4E be more elegant?

[FireLance]

I seem to remember that in the old days you had character levels, dungeon stories, and spell ranks. It got decided to change everything to levels.

Any grognards around to verify?

IIRC, the 1e DMG stated that some consideration was given to whether to use different terms such as rank, power, maybe stories (I'm not sure) instead of the generic word "level". However, it was decided that it was usually quite clear when you're talking about a character, a spell or a dungeon level, and the additional terminology wasn't necessary.

 

[Ry]

Can't say I agree with that one. Right now that's about the only thing distinguishing the
different styles of magic. If all spells have the same level and same effect for all casters,
clerics and wizards will become practically indistinguishable.

What about spell lists? Put a bit more work into those - or, if CL works like BAB, have the Sorc/Wizard CL advance faster than the Cleric one.

 

[Harold as a Verb]

Simplest and most necessary elegance: Whatever 4E's actual rules are, WotC get in professional textbook editors to re-write whatever muddle the designers have made of the combat sections.

 

[arscott]

Because we all know textbooks are so much more clear than rpg books

 

[Thorvald Kviksverd]

Oh, there's another one. Lose the distinction between the different styles of magic.

- cow-slayer maddman

If this were done, then I don't think there would really be a need for both INT and WIS.

Perhaps collapse these two abilities into one called LORE, and then add a sixth ability called PERCEPTION...

 

[apsuman]

I like the DC idea, but I would replace the d20 system.

Instead I would use a 2d10 system.

Roll 2d10 and add relevant skill mods, ability mods, situational mods to find your result.

If you roll double 1's you automatically fail what ever task you are attempting.

Otherwise if you roll doubles, you add those numbers together and get the option of rolling again to continue to add in the result of that roll as well. Again, if you roll double 1's you fail, but if you roll doubles again, you can keep rerolling.


g!

 

[RangerWickett]

Elegance is doing much with minimal energy.

I believe the strongest game system would be one that functions perfectly with basic rules, but also has the option for adding expansion rules for those who want more complexity.

The core mechanics would be easy. The baseline would be classless, but classes would be a big part of the game, because classes help you fulfill certain classic archetypes of fantasy. The one base class would get 10 hit points, 8 skill points, and 8 character points at 1st level. Each level thereafter they'd get 4 hit points per level and 2 skill points, plus 6 character points.

• A feat costs 2 character points.
• Increasing base attack bonus costs 4 character points.
• Hit points cost 1 character point per 2 HP.
• Skill points cost 1 character point per 2 skill points.
• Increasing your caster level costs 4 character points.

Spellcasting.
Each day you gain Magic Points (MP) based on your caster level. Spells cost a certain number of MP, and you cannot spend more MP per spell than your hit dice. The simple version of the rules just has basic spells that you learn like a sorcerer. The more advanced rules let you create spells on the fly, and give you options for differentiating different types of magic.

Because MP is based on caster level, but the maximum MP you can spend on a given spell is based on Hit Dice, you can multiclass to get a few levels of spellcaster and still be able to cast some worthwhile spells, just not many per day.

Combat.
This isn't my field of specialty, but I'm sure it could be simplified a bit. One thing I recommend considering is, in addition to hit points, we also have will points. Mental spells sap will points. This makes controlling someone's mind a little less "save or die." I'm not quite sure how to work it, but I don't like that a typical 20th level wizard can resist dominate person most of the time, but by random chance his will might break when confronted by a simple charm person.

 

[Ranger REG]

Simplest and most necessary elegance: Whatever 4E's actual rules are, WotC get in professional textbook editors to re-write whatever muddle the designers have made of the combat sections.

No professional textbook editor is going to want a job in a game company, unless he is desperate. But even you would not want a game company to hire a desperate editor.

As for making 4e elegant, aside from having printed in the year 2010 or later:

1. More combat styles for rangers.
2. More combat feats for fighters that emphasize:
2a. archery
2b. melee/blade fighting
2c. melee/polearm fighting
2d. unarmed combat
3. More feat option for monks
4. Prestige classes added or remove to accomodate two PrC for each core classes (if 11 core classes, then 22 prestige classes). See d20 Modern rulebook in their presentation of advanced classes for the basic hero classes.
4a. Definitely include cavalier and blackguard for the paladin
4b. 2 PrCs for the monk
5. More material for DM on how to create adventures, mainly story-based (which include using flowchart).
6. Cast magic by [spell] point value which can replenish like you would heal nonlethal damage.
7. Use d20 Modern massive damage threshold rule.

 

[jmucchiello]

Elegance is doing much with minimal energy.

And one of the real complaints about 3e that a new edition should address is creating new characters. Point buy systems like the one you posit are notorious for being slow to create new characters. I find nothing about your system involving minimal energy unless the energy you are saving is that of the person typing up the rules.

Minimizing energy is simplifying stacking bonuses. This would be easiest by saying all bonuses are of the same type and thus do not stack. A d20 roll is modified by ranks/BAB/caster level + an appropriate ability modifier + one circumstance bonus (the largest one) + one circumstance penalty (against the largest one) and that's it. So if you are hasted, attacking from higher ground, and weilding a +3 sword, your attack bonus is BAB + Str + 3. The haste and higher ground bonuses are lost to the sword's better bonus.

 

[Abstraction]

Rolling together feats that are pretty rarely used and have something in common would be good. Swim, Jump and Climb could be Athletics, and they all require Strength already.

Get rid of the class/crossclass skills. Instead it should be presented with each class having skills that they get a +X bonus to. That way one skill point buys one rank, no matter what (ever try to verify somebody's skills without knowing how they spent the skill points, very tough for multi-/prestige-classed). Also, not really a new mechanic, but list skills for monsters and whatnot as SkillxY (+Z), so that I know how many ranks something has in addition to its total bonus.