D&D (2024) How did I miss this about the Half races/ancestries

[Faolyn]

I don't think this is the case. Plenty of other posters find my posts convincing.

Do they? Or did they just have the same beliefs you do to begin with?

I am under no illusion that I am 100% right here, I can always be mistaken. But you and some others are doing things with my posts that I am not doing with yours. You are taking an extremely fine comb to them and trying to find points where I contradict myself. Now in a fluid conversation, it is easy to make contradictory statements (which is why the conversation can evolve and change as a person clarifies or realizes they really meant to say something else). But it is especially a problem when you restate my position in a way that distorts it, takes a quote out of context, or even givens a meaning that is either opposite what I meant, or nothing remotely like what I meant. Again I think this boils down to having a charitable conversation. There have been many instances where you have said something I could have read in an uncharitable light. But I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt so we can have a discussion.

I really don't know how I'm quoting out of context when I am literally copy-pasting the entirety of what you write and keep all of your words in a single reply, so that it's easy to see what the entirety of what you wrote all at once.

That is entirely possible and fair. But I keep responding because in many instances people offer a rebuttal, which I then respond to, or they distort what I said, so I try to clarify.



You can feel that way if you want, but it isn't the case. I am just finding that no matter how much I try to engage you in good faith, it doesn't seem like my words are being given a fair reading

OK, so still no reasons then.

 

[Guest 85555]

Do they? Or did they just have the same beliefs you do to begin with?

I think something that tends to happen in these discussion is posters who share the same ideas tend to read one another's posts more charitably. So you always need to be wary of being in an echo chamber. But I do think I have, at least at times, made my case well, and clearly. I don't feel like your posts have been reading them all that charitably and have a tendency to distort the position I am taking.

I really don't know how I'm quoting out of context when I am literally copy-pasting the entirety of what you write and keep all of your words in a single reply, so that it's easy to see what the entirety of what you wrote all at once.

I am sure there are instances where you quoted me fully but there were plenty of times I felt taken out of context or that the meaning of the quoted or paraphrased statement was distorted by your summary and commentary.

OK, so still no reasons then.

Again, I don't know what else to tell you here.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Vaalingrade it would be greatly appreciated if you did not paint part of the player base as participating in buffoonery. You know respect and all that.

No one said buffoonery. It's just a funtime game element; a 'tool in the toolbox' to those people. They're taking it super lightly to the point that they're putting it ahead of real people's pain.

I can support your right to protest your desires for the game, but I do not support the excising of a storyline tool completely from the game.

From the core. From the basic element that tells everything this is a good and fun thing to do. Stop pretending not having it as the default is 'excising it' completely. That's pointless hyperbole.

As for the dramatisation of end our lives, do you have an example where D&D fluff did just that or is this hyperbole on your part which weakens your argument IMO.

That's what racism is. That's the point of racism. It's not a quaint theme park ride or tourism of other people's problems that it's being used as. People around me are being killed for the reasons that are 'just a tool' to people who are untouched by it and think it's just a point if interest to throw into a story.

And when people complain, it's 'dramatization'.

 

[Faolyn]

if they care about RP they do, if not it's just hack-n-slash game so it really does not matter who is killing who, just as long battles are mechanically interesting.

OK, sure. But how many GMs are actually going to come up with that history?

The post I replied to said something like "is it the orcs' home, or did they take over the dwarfs' home?"

Well, what if it was an abandoned dwarf fortress (I should start playing that again...) because all the mines tapped out and the orcs moved in?

What if the dwarfs started a war against orcs because the orcs were sitting on a bit of land that was rich with ore that the orcs didn't care about mining, but the orcs won and took over the fortress (since killing people and taking their stuff is perfectly fine)?

What if the orcs did invade and murder all the dwarfs, but that was many generations ago and the orcs who live there now are innocent of that crime?

At some point, people are going to say "hey, that's too much work," and unless your an inveterate worldbuilder, it probably is, especially if you just want to go forth and kill some monsters. Which brings us back to... why is it OK to go and invade an orcs' fortress and kill them all?

 

[Incenjucar]

I would personally prefer any intelligent creature to have a range of behaviors listed, not as an exception but as a default. Non-antagonist medusae, minotaurs, fiends, aberrations, undead, etc. are already all over the game, and make it so much richer.

 

[Faolyn]

The word 'orc' literally means 'evil spirit', 'corpse', or 'sea monster'. Depending on the translation, culture, and time.

And "derro" means "detrimental robot," not "crazy dwarf," and yet.

I hardly think the original meaning of the word has any actual use in D&D.

 

[Faolyn]

Everyone focusing on orc depictions and rights...

What about bullywug depictions and rights? Why do they not get the same attention which orcs do?

• Int 7 (same as orc statblock)
• 'Nasty, brutish, and wet'
• 'Always hungry, ad thoroughly evil'
• 'they wear crude armour and simple weapons'

Some picked phrases of their description from the monster manual.

Bullywugs, sadly, are not a PC race, which is why they get less attention. They never even got an "The Ecology Of..." article.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Where are the studies that show that games cause bias and/or racism?

I mean, games affect attitudes. That's pretty indisputable.

Playing games can shift attitudes, study shows

A research laboratory is working to quantify the effects of playing games. In a study, researchers found that attitudes toward public health issues shift to be more accepting and understanding after playing a game they developed called RePlay Health.

www.sciencedaily.com

And that can include racism.

Do Stereotypic Images in Video Games Affect Attitudes and Behavior? Adolescents’ Perspectives - PMC

This study examined adolescents’ attitudes about video games along with their self-reported play frequency. Ninth and eleventh grade students (N = 361), approximately evenly divided by grade and gender, were surveyed about whether video games have ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263697104_Effects_of_Avatar_Race_in_Violent_Video_Games_on_Racial_Attitudes_and_Aggression

I mean, really, we associate D&D and other games as helping increase cooperation and such, why would we assume the reverse couldn't be true, that we can pick up negative attitudes and such from games?

 

[Incenjucar]

Bullywugs, sadly, are not a PC race, which is why they get less attention. They never even got an "The Ecology Of..." article.

They were included in 2E's The Complete Book of Humanoids.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Eberron and Wildmount orcs don't follow the baseline. Both of them have orcs as good guys.

But the orcs are still tribal and "primitive". They just aren't killed for it. Which, you know good step, but it isn't like it is a major change.

Ok, how would you go about writing an Int 7 enemy type for the monster manual. Considering Int 6 is apes, and Int 8 is the lower bounds for player characters using standard array or point buy.

Are Int 7 bad guys just not allowed anymore?

Why do we keep acting like 6 is animals when Ogres are 5?

Anyways, I just need an intelligence 7 enemy?

The Staxis is a particularly aggressive and dangerous breed of plant. Thought to originate in the Feywild, these collections of vines, wood, and leaves can lay complex traps for the sprites and pixies they hunt, though those that find their way to the mortal plane often find the meat of mortals equally delicious. Woodsmen often see no sign of these creatures in their forests, as the Staxis is cunning and knows to hide all trace until it has captured and consumed those who seek to enter its domain. Whenever the woodsmen disappear without a trace, fear, for there may be dark things creeping in the woods.

There you go, that seems like an intelligence 7 enemy to me. Cunning enough to outsmart people, but not as widely knowledgeable as a person. Capable of long-term planning, but not of things like calculation or magic.