I'm not being disingenuous. I'm making a sincere post based on my reasonably extensive play of OA in the mid-to-late 1980s.Sure it does. You're being disingenuous here to make your point, clearly.
I'm not being disingenuous. I'm making a sincere post based on my reasonably extensive play of OA in the mid-to-late 1980s.Sure it does. You're being disingenuous here to make your point, clearly.
Playing a role in AD&D is simple: it's Race, Class and Alignment. Those are the factors that most influence the PC's decisions. To, as you call it, "Self-Insert" your personality as player into how the PC makes decisions is counter-roleplay. You're not playing a character, you're playing YOU (which is weird and incorrect for AD&D).Since we're talking about AD&D in this thread, here is how Gygax characterises roleplaying in his PHB (p 18):
Character class refers to the profession of the player character. The approach you wish to take to the game, how you believe you can most successfully meet the challenges which it poses, and which role you desire to play are dictated by character class (or multi-class).
Taking on a role, in the game, means taking on a particular suite of capabilities and functions, determined primarily by class, and using them to meet the challenges that the game poses.
This is quite compatible with self-insert of personality, or with adopting a motivation that - subject to alignment considerations - is aimed overwhelmingly at the play of the game (ie exploring dungeons and acquiring the loot therein).
A focus on depicting a particular distinct personality is not essential to that. And once a player does decide to engage in such activity, the play of the classic game will come under pressure (eg suppose I sacrifice the loot to rescue the noble and take their hand in marriage, do I lose out on XP and hence level gain and hence getting a castle and followers? or have I discovered a different pathway to social progress that the game rules don't themselves set out?).
Hence the fudging, railroading etc that - as per the OP and as discussed in this thread - becomes fairly central (not necessarily universal) in later AD&D play.
But anyway, all this being said, I think thay @EzekielRaiden's point was a different one - namely, that the behaviour of an authored character always, in some literal sense, reflects the desires and personality of the author. Though the desires that will be reflected are desires for this fiction I wish to depict, which may not be the same as desires for how I would act were I in this fictional situation.
I guess I will be the one to say it. Even at the point in time we're talking about in this thread, which is a reminiscence about AD&D 2E days, there were many approaches to roleplaying, from glorified wargame pieces to deep character immersion. We've only gotten more involved since then. I feel blessed to have gamed with people with a lot of different styles, and I've learned from all of them. I would never presume to tell any of them they were doing it wrong.Playing a role in AD&D is simple: it's Race, Class and Alignment. Those are the factors that most influence the PC's decisions. To, as you call it, "Self-Insert" your personality as player into how the PC makes decisions is counter-roleplay. You're not playing a character, you're playing YOU (which is weird and incorrect for AD&D).
This looks as if several of you have no real idea what roleplaying IS.
Really now. Really.Then you are not roleplaying. Simple.
Precisely.But anyway, all this being said, I think thay @EzekielRaiden's point was a different one - namely, that the behaviour of an authored character always, in some literal sense, reflects the desires and personality of the author. Though the desires that will be reflected are desires for this fiction I wish to depict, which may not be the same as desires for how I would act were I in this fictional situation.
But characters cannot have goals that the player is actively unwilling to roleplay.
I mean, I would say that that character still has the goals, and the player wants them to happen. The player just wants to skip the work and get straight to the skoodilypooping, which is a crappy player behavior.This reminds me of the player who told me they wanted romance (with the beautiful Elf Paladin NPC) but forbade me from roleplaying it.![]()
Where is that rule stated in Gygax's AD&D rulebooks?To, as you call it, "Self-Insert" your personality as player into how the PC makes decisions is counter-roleplay. You're not playing a character, you're playing YOU (which is weird and incorrect for AD&D).
Speaking for myself, I try to approach play in the spirit that the game demands.I guess I will be the one to say it. Even at the point in time we're talking about in this thread, which is a reminiscence about AD&D 2E days, there were many approaches to roleplaying, from glorified wargame pieces to deep character immersion. We've only gotten more involved since then. I feel blessed to have gamed with people with a lot of different styles