How different are Fighters from common soldiers/warriors?

[Ahnehnois]

This is something I'd change in a heartbeat, to make the based-on stat(s) somehow relevant to the craft being done if it had to be stat-based at all. For a blacksmith I'd probably base it on an average of the Str-Dex scores. For a potter it might be Int-Dex. For an engineer or draughtsman it'd be straight Int. And so on.

Really? Not saying the physical stats don't matter, but I think making functioning armor requires some mental aptitude as well.

 

[Cadence]

Really? Not saying the physical stats don't matter, but I think making functioning armor requires some mental aptitude as well.

One of the problems with requiring stats for NPCs to have skills is that it means all of the really good blacksmiths or sword makers will also know a plethora of languages and have the mental chops to be philosopher-scientists (in addition to having something like 10d6 or 20d6 hitpoints).

 

[Lanefan]

That array (after racial modifiers) would be 23 points in PF (so above the standard PF Society build, and almost at the "Epic Fantasy level).

I don't play PF and do not (and never will) use point-buy, so we're talking different dialects here.

I'd second that if we're going to build them like PCs.

Seems easier to just give them the total die modifier I think is appropriate without worrying about level and abilities. (PC Classes are just a model of the game world that works best for modeling how adventuring PCs work, I don't see why the same model needs to be optimal for non-adventuring NPCs).

Probably true; and if the blacksmith was just a passing irrelevancy I might not even do that much. But if he's somehow important (or intended to become so) then I'd rather flesh him out a bit to see what makes him tick.

Lanefan

 

[Cadence]

I don't play PF and do not (and never will) use point-buy, so we're talking different dialects here.

Gave you some chances related to rolling them too, so I tried

As some others have hinted at in various threads, players' die rolling seems like it might be tampering with the cosmic balance and laws of probability given how many 18/xx strengths were rolled back in the day. (If any of you rolled like that in the last two days, I'm blaming you for my bridge hands at lunch today).

Personally, I get more annoyed by the randomness in character creation every year, so I prefer the point buy (or even pick what fits the character) and fixed HP per level. Unless we're playing a high lethality game, then I'm good with anything.

Probably true; and if the blacksmith was just a passing irrelevancy I might not even do that much. But if he's somehow important (or intended to become so) then I'd rather flesh him out a bit to see what makes him tick.

I can definitely understand that.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Really? Not saying the physical stats don't matter, but I think making functioning armor requires some mental aptitude as well.

It does, but it doesn't take a lot of Intelligence. And, because of the way ability scores work, the stupidest possible character can still succeed more than half the time at any task which the smartest possible character can succeed all of the time.

The kind of idiot who wouldn't be able to put together functioning armor would have to be literally so stupid that the rules can't even model it.

 

[doghead]

Interesting. I don't default to "npcs all have lower stats than pcs", and sometimes someone like a village blacksmith might be the (physical stat) equal of a pc fighter. It sounds like this approach is less common than I'd expect.

I would say that the blacksmith might have a decent Str or Con, but probably not overall as good of an ability array as a PC. Certainly there are plenty of NPCs with much better than average ability scores, even better than the PCs, but I expect they're not blacksmiths.

This is kind of how I run it. Actually, my NPC's generally don't have a full array. I just pick a few key stats (or even just the bonuses) based on my impression of the character. The burly blacksmith might get a few bonuses in STR and CON. The sly merchant bonuses in INT and WIS. When I do need a fully stat'ed character, again, I generally just pick numbers IAW the idea of the character I have in my head. Generally they are not as good as overall as the PC's. But in their area of expertise, they may surpass the PC.

thotd

 

[doghead]

PC class, surely? Doesn't have to be played by a player, but someone with that kind of talent really shouldn't be languishing over an anvil forever. On top of that, Craft is Int-based; this guy's lack of mental stats probably would make him a mediocre craftsman even if he was strong enough to do it all day.

Yeah. What sort of person would choose a respectable profession, stable income and a roof over their head over the life of a murder-hobo?

With full ranks in Craft (Trained Class Skill) and Skill Focus and Masterwork Artisan's Tools, a Level 3 Expert would be at +11. Allowing an Aid another Check by an assistant/apprentice could take it to +13. The lack of +1 or +2 INT bonus isn't going to condemn the character to mediocrity.

thotd

 

[doghead]

One of the problems with requiring stats for NPCs to have skills is that it means all of the really good blacksmiths or sword makers will also know a plethora of languages and have the mental chops to be philosopher-scientists

Or Wizards (assuming that you allow NPC's to take PC class levels). Seriously, with the range of utility spells, a level dip into Wizard (or Adept even) makes an awful lot of sense for any craftsman. And thats only considering the standard spell list. If you consider the possibilities of re-searched spells ... Perhaps that's what the Guilds do.

(in addition to having something like 10d6 or 20d6 hitpoints).

This one give me the heebie geebies. Currently in my game the PC's are rescuing a renown philosopher-sage type who has more hp's and a better BAB than any of the PC's

thotd

 

[Ahnehnois]

Yeah. What sort of person would choose a respectable profession, stable income and a roof over their head over the life of a murder-hobo?

I don't think most people who are members of PC classes actually live the "adventuring lifestyle". Being a soldier or the like is an entirely respectable profession. Or perhaps the character would do something else. It just seems like there are some better ways of leveraging those particular scores.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

What sort of person would choose a respectable profession, stable income and a roof over their head over the life of a murder-hobo?

That's sig-worthy right there.