How do characters *gain* new classes? (In-game logic)

[Snoweel]

Just curious about how you guys handle the gaining of a level in a new class by a character (or even the first level in a character's first class), whether PC or NPC.

For example, a character gains a level of ranger (or began as a 1st level ranger); what did the character have to do to gain those abilities?

Which classes require their abilities to be taught by another member of the class? Which ones can characters develop on their own (so-called 'self-taught' classes)?

Likewise with prestige classes - which PrC's can a character develop just by fulfilling the requirements? Which ones require further RP requirements?

And for all of these classes that require a character to find an instructor, do you rule that instruction is required for every level or just the first?

Do you even bother with including this stuff in-game or do you give your players (and NPC's I guess) carte blanche to invent their own stories for their PCs between sessions?

Tell me, dammit.

 

[bulletmeat]

All PCs IMC start out with 2 levels; 1st level in npc class (what they learned in childhood) next level in adventuring class (what they have trained to do during adulthood). With mulit-classing, the character must find mentor (like wiz, drd, mnk) before level up and spend 6 months training (usually out of game) or be in a certain situation (sor finds that she has magic power). They also can only m-class between 3 core classes.

 

[jinx crossbow]

Let me give You some examples how we handle it in our Campaignes

A bard form an civilised Uthgar Clan was travelling to the Icewinddale to learn more
about the history and the lost culture of his Clan. There he met two barbarians
and they showed him how wild the world could be. They trained him in rageing. And after he
learned to get real wild he became his first level as an barbarian.

A barbarian wanted to learn to fight like the civilised armies. He searched for a teacher
and found a deserted Zentharim Warrior who trained him for a week.

The only class which doesnt need a teacher is the sorcerer, because sorcery is a JINX

The teacher ist only needed to gaun the first level.
In some cases the PC can also learn his "class" by a book. (e.g. Cleric)

The search for a teacher should allways be a storrytelling part of the RPG. The PC wants
something special so he should do something special for it.

Was a honor to tell you, Alfons

 

[wedgeski]

Do you even bother with including this stuff in-game or do you give your players (and NPC's I guess) carte blanche to invent their own stories for their PCs between sessions?

Tell me, dammit.

Alright, dammit! The answer is: whatever. If one of my players declares an intent to pursue a PrC early enough, then we'll discuss some ideas about integrating it, then he or she'll leave it to me to work it in. (Example: Currently playing 'Key of Destiny' with my Dragonlance group, and one of my player's eyes lit up at his brief flirtation with the enigmatic Legion of Steel in the opening chapter; cue desperate search for information on the Legion, and declaration of intent to join. Now it's over to me, and in a few levels, he'll get his shot.)

That's the ideal. At the next level is the character who has ended up doing things he wasn't 'built' for, like being the guy who ended up sneaking about the place when he didn't plan to, or making eight Heal checks and saving half of the party from certain death at crucial moments. I might raise an eyebrow in his direction at times like that, and almost certainly reward him if he decides to take a level of Rogue or Cleric when he didn't plan to. I'm a big fan of that, even though it hardly ever happens in an experienced group.

Sometimes though, a player on the cusp of levelling will thumb through my list of DM-sanctioned PrC's and take a fancy to something. A little bit of background retconn'ing later, and assuming he meets the reqs, and it's in. Occasionally I may require him to wait a level so I can work at least something into the game. Ultimately I have authority over what classes are allowed, but I don't want to rain on one of my players' parade if he's getting excited about a class option.

The problem with deeply relevant backgrounds is that the player may have to roadmap his character quite heavily, which is something I prefer to avoid.

 

[Herpes Cineplex]

do you give your players (and NPC's I guess) carte blanche to invent their own stories for their PCs between sessions?

Yeah, basically.

I figure I'll worry about what a player wants his or her character to multiclass into when it's actually going to cause a serious problem for me or for the game as a whole. And since I have yet to even imagine a set of circumstances in which it would cause even a minor problem for anyone, I can honestly say that I don't think that I'll ever need to pay any attention at all to it. If some kind of weird, barely-explicable multiclassing is going to make a particular player happy, well, then I guess we're all going to be happy, because I'm not going to strain myself to invent some reason why they can't do it just for the thrill of saying "NO."

And there isn't a lot of emphasis on realism in a game where people can cast spells and fight dragons anyway, so I don't worry about trainers and the like, either. We just handwave all that boring stuff away during downtime, and only play out interactions with teachers and the like when it's actually going to be interesting for plot or character reasons.

--
i murdered verisimilitude, took its stuff, and spent the profits in vegas
ryan


EDIT TO ADD: Except for prestige classes. I tend to assume any prestige class is going to be a problem until demonstrated otherwise, so players who are aiming for a particular PrC have to tell me at least a level before they take it, so I can look it over and decide whether it's okay and see if there's an interesting way to work it in.

But that's a problem I have with prestige classes, not with our players. If I could rely on a prestige class fitting into the game as well as the core classes do, I wouldn't even bother doing that.

 

[Li Shenron]

IMHO

For example, a character gains a level of ranger (or began as a 1st level ranger); what did the character have to do to gain those abilities?

In theory, everything your character gains at a new level was learned in time during his previous level, or more appropriately during the time passed after the last time he gained an equivalent feature (for example, if his last feat was gained at 3rd, he is learning his 6th-level feats during levels 3rd-5th). Of course the whole thing is just an abstraction for game's sake, and you don't even have to take it too seriously.

IMO, you should handle learning as it goes smoother for your group out-of-char first of all, and justify it in-char in an easy way in general, for example throwing bits here and there during downtime. Normally, players make their choices for the new level only when they actually level up, but characters don't suddenly gain all the benefits (that is part of the abstraction); this often leads some DMs to require "stop adventuring" between levels to get training, which however cuts off the fact that people learn also by doing and not only by studying.

Which classes require their abilities to be taught by another member of the class? Which ones can characters develop on their own (so-called 'self-taught' classes)?

Every class and none, depending on what the player feels like, and which restrictions or requirements the DM wishes to add! Everything can be "teached" or "self-teached" if it fits with the character and the campaign. Don't think that since the flavor text in the PHB says the Sorcerer has dragon blood, you HAVE to take it like that in your game!

Likewise with prestige classes - which PrC's can a character develop just by fulfilling the requirements? Which ones require further RP requirements?

Normally, in my XP the nicest PrCls to play are the ones tied to a restricted group in the setting, while the others tend to feel like kits of abilities. In general, I think it makes sense to stress the RP requirements for PrCls, but if that doesn't appeal you, just don't... remember that the DM should be by default in charge of handling PrCls.

And for all of these classes that require a character to find an instructor, do you rule that instruction is required for every level or just the first?

Again, since the DM should be in total charge, he should be free to add or remove this kind of requirement to a PrCl. I would discuss with the player about what kind of PC she would prefer to play (self-taught or trained, again), because in general I think that there is always space enough for the DM to change the setting to suit the PCs rather than always change the PCs to suit the setting...

Do you even bother with including this stuff in-game or do you give your players (and NPC's I guess) carte blanche to invent their own stories for their PCs between sessions?

In the past it has depended on the campaign, and the playing group. Some players are embarassed by large freedom and you have to give them LESS choices to make it easier while others hate to be railroaded just because the DM wants something from her own world.

It hasn't always been like this, but recently I am more open and let the players have more freedom. To mention, I even sometimes start an adventure by telling the players what awaits them (of course, not in details...), and let them tell me why and how their characters embarked in this quest.

 

[Thanee]

We start out at 2nd level, so you can start out multiclassed right away.

Other than that, it's normally pretty clear, what path a PC is going to follow (you have to know beforehand, which PrC to head for, to fulfill the requirements, for example), so that path is what eventually leads to the new class (once the requirements are fulfilled).

There is no need for specific training, a trainer or anything, that stuff is just assumed to happen in the spare time. Same as the wizard who is constantly studying magic (the source of his 2 free spells per level), which is done in the evening during camp, or in the city, it just isn't really drawn into the spotlight normally.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Deadguy]

Just adding a small point regarding multi-classing and needing to be above 1st level:

I, as DM, treat classes as the building blocks of characters. As such, I am quite happy for a player to come to me with a 1st level character and say something like:

"My broad character idea is a thief with sorcerous blood from a family of tainted-blood thieves from City X. I want to multiclass Sorcerer and Rogue, and eventually develop Arcane Trickster as a prestige class. Is that okay? And if I take my first level as Rogue?"

I am quite happy to see this character concept as being built out of Sorcerer and Rogue levels, culminating in the Arcane Trickster. In this case going "1st level Rogue, 2nd level Sorcerer" isn't a character changing class, except in the trivial sense. This is a character developing another asepct of their abilities.

In the same vein, I have had a Fighter who developed through some Rogue levels and became a Devoted Defender, and a Rogue who took Ranger levels and became what we referred to as an Urban Ranger (before there was an official Urban Ranger).

I don't see this as a problem, or unreasonable. It's using the rules as a toolkit to describe a specific character. And it rewards those who can develop a character concept in advance - which is useful to me when writing adventures.

 

[Zappo]

It depends.

For core classes, I assume that the class (at least at first) either doesn't require special training, or it requires special training that is relatively easy to obtain while adventuring. For example, anyone can become a sorcerer at any moment, reasoning that just now he has awakened his inner self or whatever. This is a bit weird in the case of monks, wizards and similar classes that are supposed to have years of training behind. However, consider that lots of fantasy literature has characters learning very exotic stuff while traveling; it is apparently commonplace that the rudimentaries of arcane arts (ie, 1st level) can be learnt very quickly if you are a PC. That's good enough for me.

Some prestige classes exist to fill in some shortcoming of the class system (eg. mystic theurge). I assume these prestige classes mechanically represent something that is nevertheless not too difficult to learn once you have the basics (ie, requisites). So, characters can take them freely.

For other prestige classes, a character has to get some training before he levels. Or undergo some sort of personal quest, or something like that; it depends on the specific PrC. This is a "roleplaying" requirement in addition to any mechanical requirement. The reasoning is that some stuff is simply too exotic for someone to discover by himself in a short period of time. If it requires training, then someone obviously did it first, but it took him decades. If it requires a major shift in the character's mindset, then something must happen that triggers this shift. Once the character knows the basic principles over which the PrC operates (ie, he's first level in the class), he can progress by himself.

 

[Henry]

In my games, I don't make the characters train when picking up a new level in an existing class; however, to pick up a new class entirely requires in-game seeking out and training from someone at least 5th level who is already trained in the class.