How do i deal with an overwhelming Mage?

[Siberys]

To be frank, that sounds less like a problem with the mage and more with the player. :/

Remember the limitations of his abilities and play up their consequences. Maybe the other players accept it because they think there's nothing to be done about it? An NPC unwilling to put up with his BS might inspire the other characters.

Worse comes to worst, talk with him about it. If that doesn't work, talk with the /other/ players about it. And if that doesn't work, well, it's better not to play with someone than to play and get mad about it.

 

[Jhaelen]

Call me vindictive, call me over zealous, but i despise people who think they can walking in, stomp all over something I've spent weeks piecing together and converting, and then essentially tell me that he's running the game. I've tried all sorts of things. Big monsters? He runs and trips his allies. Traps? Blasts them or shoves someone else into them. Anti-magic? he refuses to go. The rest of the party is so used to this behavior they just accept it. I'm tired of it.

I don't think there's anything you can or should do. Your best chance would be the pcs of his fellow players, but if they are fine with his behaviour...
If I was a player in your game, I know, I wouldn't tolerate that kind of behaviour for long.

But that shouldn't trouble _you_: It simply sounds like a very good (and effective) player to me. Why are you so annoyed about him? Be glad that his skillful play allows the party to succeed.

If the player's sucking your fun out of DMing, though, you should probably just tell the group and stop DMing - or tell him to leave the group.

Theoretically, you could ask him to change his behaviour, but that probably won't work. It's like telling a ballet dancer he should chain ten-pound weights to his legs.

Personally, as a DM I've never had a problem to find ways to challenge my players, but if you cannot think of anything, maybe it's really better to give someone else the chance to DM (at least for a time).

 

[Istar]

Stay calm, find a role playing solution.
But first get a good grip on his powers and make sure he is not abusing anything, mage hand and P are mere cantrips that shouldnt imbalance a game.

One DM we have would get equally nasty and target him, regardless of monster knowledge.

But find a roleplay solution, along the lines of this in new dungeons.

First battle, he has his wicked way, and maybe one enemy escapes and tells rest of dungeon about this amazing mage, who is leading the party.

Of course since he is controlling the party, he will now be labelled the leader, and open to greater attacks.

As smart enemy will want to take him out, as they believe party will fall apart if they can kill him.

So dumb creatures play fair, but smart opposition you can now roleplay to specifically target him.

And you must be doing something wrong, if you cant have strong enough forces ganging up and taking him on.
Kill him once or twice and he might get the hint.

Once you have done that, then you can talk to him, as he seems to be a dick.

But first look in the mirror to see if your the dick, as we dont really know you from a bar of soap

Wizards have pretty useful defences but wont have lots of surges.
So long days of him having to heal himself, will leave him winging towards the end of the day that the party has to rest.
He must be exposing himself a bit to be so affective in play.

Our wizard does that to, really gets in the front line.
Well, the front line can be dangerous, cant it

 

[Ryujin]

(Psi)SeveredHead and Istar bring up some very good points about the limitations, of what he's doing with minor powers. Magic Missile has a target "one creature" so unless that rock over there happens to be a horta, he ain't-a-gonna be able to do what he's been doing.

Prestidigitation specifically states, "Nothing you create with this cantrip can deal damage, serve as a weapon or a tool, or hinder another creature's actions." It's meant purely to create flavour so if you want to entertain the village children, go nuts. If you want to pick a lock..... Well, good luck with that.

Mage Hand can only move 20 pounds. If he tries to use it to set off a trap that's intended to go off when someone steps on it, then it isn't likely to work. Even a halfling weighs more than 20 pounds and the trap's designer likely doesn't want it going off every time a raccoon walks across it, now does he? If it's a magical trap then it will likely trigger to a creature and Mage Hand isn't a creature, now is it? If it triggers to something being moved and he moves it, then the trap might well destroy what he's trying to get.

The rest of it comes down to role play. Like I said if you're going easy on the rest of the party because you don't want to punish them for HIS actions, don't. They have to pay the price of their inaction, as much as he has to pay the price of his actions. If he pushes them into traps, then they take the hit. If it kills the PC then it's the Wizard's fault, not yours.

Also I don't care how much Bluff or Diplomacy a character has, if that character's actions are obviously detrimental to someone else. NPCs don't throw themselves on enemy swords on the say-so of someone who acts like an idiot, no matter how well he speaks. Intelligence must somehow enter into it and die rolls don't determine everything. Sometimes I'll allow a good idea or comment by a player circumvent a challenge. The opposite is also true, when boot is firmly placed in mouth.

 

[Trit One-Ear]

Might I suggest a slightly different approach? You mention this player is your usual DM. This means he's a least somewhat familiar with the pressures and stresses that you're feeling. How is he as a DM? Does he encourage behavior like his? Does he revel in "ruling the world" or does he encourage players to try and break his story or foil his plans?

Appealing to him as a fellow DM might be a good way to get him to listen. If he reacts badly to that, sounds like he has no regard for the playing experience of anyone else but himself. At which point, kick him (or the group) to the curb.

Trit

 

[GreyICE]

First of all, I'd tend to view a player like that as a challenge. But it would also kick into something that I don't do often, but do occasionally enjoy: "Antagonistic Roleplay."

In general, I like my parties to feel challenged. But believe it or not, I don't enjoy TPKs. Okay, the threat of one should be there, and the threat means sometimes it happens, but in general it doesn't verge into antagonistic roleplay.

Lets look at player motivation. Clearly this guy likes being the big cheese, and the other players are okay with that. As a DM, they're probably used to him being in charge, and as long as everyone is having fun there's no reason to disrupt that dynamic. Instead, use a combination of techniques to make him satisfied and make yourself satisfied.

1) Stroke his ego

He wants to be running the world? Cool. He's a character with a goal. But if he's as good as you say, he'll become notorious. People will drop their weapons and run at the sight of him, only to regroup later for an 'overwhelming' attack. He gets to feel like a badass. You get an in-system excuse for why things are suddenly going against the mage. Bonus points if you include familiars to observe him, etc.

2) Adaptable enemies

Let him set off a trap with mage hand. Then let him try a second time. They reset the trap with a heavier spring, it triggers on 50 pounds. Good luck, mage hand. It makes him feel badass (in that the enemies care about HIM, personally) without breaking your campaign.

Diplomacy, Bluff, Intimidation? Rely on other skills. I have yet to see a character successfully bluff a toxic forest, or Intimidate the desert heat. If the rest of the party gets a chance to shine, it feels less like him running the show. NPCs are fully capable of no-sirring ridiculous stuff, no matter how good the Bluff/Diplomacy skills are. As for Intimidate, it has consequences. If he overrelies on it, he's going to start getting attacked. Fun things?

- Someone he's cheated/tricked/scared with Bluff/Intimidate has him poisoned. Use the disease track. Yes, suddenly the game becomes a little about him curing himself, but he's going to need the party to do so (some diseases have a WICKED disease track).

- Something he's negotiated with Diplomacy falls apart out of hand, as someone backstabs him. Remember, just as the party is duplicitous, it's okay for NPCs to be lying backstabbing bastards. Done in a particularly memorable way, the PCs will want the little rat's head.

- Magic missile can target the world, as long as you're being consistent, but remember it doesn't have to do much. Most stone/brick/metal has damage resistance of some form, often high enough to completely negate magic missile damage. And magic missile is not a physical thing, it doesn't push things or set things off. Make him make an Arcana check to do non-standard things with powers. Have interesting things happen if he fails.

- Have him get a terrible reputation. Trip his ally and run from a big thing? Cool. But any NPCs in the area tell their friends who tell their friends, and suddenly no one likes him anymore. If he wants to run the world, he needs to make friends. I'd be FINE with imposing a +20 DC to a bluff/diplomacy check to make allies if he's a known backstabber. Watch him try and make DC 45 Diplomacy checks. Make sure the NPC hems and haws and more or less brings up how he backstabs people. That probably boosts Intimidate, actually, but remember that Intimidate has consequences.

A couple +20 modifiers and he might try to start getting a good reputation out of sheer selfpreservation.

 

[James Lockart]

Let's see... He handed over possibly game changing bits and pieces of information and items to NPC's in hope that they would figure it out for him for a fee. I guess I'll just have them give back the money, tell him they made, no progress, and then have it come back to bite him... Penalize his diplomacy checks... and to the deal with the fact that he's blatantly lied to me on what Magic Missile targets,l and now that i think about it the range as well, I'll just have him suffer DOT whenever he breaks the rules again.

 

[GreyICE]

Let's see... He handed over possibly game changing bits and pieces of information and items to NPC's in hope that they would figure it out for him for a fee. I guess I'll just have them give back the money, tell him they made, no progress, and then have it come back to bite him... Penalize his diplomacy checks... and to the deal with the fact that he's blatantly lied to me on what Magic Missile targets,l and now that i think about it the range as well, I'll just have him suffer DOT whenever he breaks the rules again.

Oh come on, the first one is no fun at all!

Let the NPCs give him back the paper, tell him that they solved it. Then it turns out that they actually turned around and sold the information AND the fact the PCs were using it for twice what he paid them. Oh and there's an ambush now!

Spells/Abilities targeting things other than enemies outside combat situations and having effects is a fairly standard house rule. Like by rules as written if you use Scorching Burst in a barn full of hay, then nothing happens to the hay because Scorching burst targets creatures and hay is not a creature. Most DMs rule that spells and abilities impact the environment for exactly that reason, and he may have simply been using that rule so long he forgot that it explicitly needs to be in effect. DMG2 and the Rules Compendium even discuss improvisational uses of spells and powers.

Also, Magic Missile is Range 20, I don't know what the hell you need to shoot outside 100 ft.

 

[James Lockart]

Also, Magic Missile is Range 20, I don't know what the hell you need to shoot outside 100 ft.

A target 150 down a shaft

 

[GreyICE]

Oh, well it blatantly can't do that.