How do I make it really "low-magic"?

[mistergone]

Thanks everyone so far. Some good advice. Some useful. I get a couple things right off:

The first is that for some reason, running a DnD3E low-magic game is apparently hard to do. This seems ridiculous to me. I mean, we've all read LotR, right? How many of them were spellcasters? In the tales of King Arthur, how many there? Why the hell is it that now, in D&D, we can't play a decent game without having a magic item in every "slot" like some kind of magic superhero decked out with every magic item possible? It just seems wrong to me. I would dare even say that, although that may be the way the game is designed, it seems to have gotten "broken" as the kids say, over time, so that now, with each edition that comes out, all these things have become a given. You CANNOT play the game to high character levels and succeed in adventures without having many powerful spells and magic items. Why is that? To me, that's a failing of the system.

Okay, that was a rant, but let's stay on track here. So, I think that I'd rather just cut out or lessen the frequency of magic than make lots of rules modifications. So yeah, players won't be wizards or bards or even clerics most likely. Sorcerers, maybe, but that way I see them is that they are rare (or should be) and in my game they would be more likely to be a player character than a wizard, and also, multiclassed with something else.

Hm, you know, the more I think about it, the more I think that D&D just ain't the right game for the kind of campaign I want to run. That kinda blows. I look over at my shelf of 3E books and feel a little resentful, but hey, no one made me go out and buy them. I want to be able to use them, cause everyone is familiar with the rules to a degree.

Here's a thought, maybe Swashbuckling Adventures is something I should look into for this? Low magic and gunpowder? I mean, that's basically what that setting is all about right? I could just extract the 7th Sea material and add my own game world info... Hm, maybe.

 

[mistergone]

Finally, every spell requires a casting roll, qith a spellcraft DC of 10 + 2(spell level +1). If the roll is failed, the spell doesn't go off, but the slot is not wasted unless a natural 1 is rolled, or unless the check is failed by 10 or more.

I like this. I might use it. Along with the "feat required to cast spells" idea, too. That sort of fits in my world.

 

[hong]

IMO Gandalf is a fighter/sorcerer. (Yes, I know a high level wizard can wield a sword fairly well.)

Nah. Gandalf is a shapechanged solar.

 

[LostSoul]

The first is that for some reason, running a DnD3E low-magic game is apparently hard to do.

It's not. Even without changing the PC classes, you can run a low-magic world. The PCs will be able to walk over armies if they have access to normal spells, but that's why you make them fight powerful opponents. It's what I've done and we had a great game last Saturday, one that featured the first casting of a Disintigrate spell that I've ever seen.

If you want to change the classes, just make it a simple change. And now your PCs have less magical "power". You take this into account and balance the encounters and experience they face. Just because a ghoul is a CR 2 encounter, that doesn't mean you should throw one at a party of four Rogues.

The fact that 3e is balanced using the default setting really throws people off sometimes. If you change one thing, you have to look at its effects and change other things. You don't have to use the CR system if you decide to give each PC Implosion usable at will as a spell-like ability.

 

[Darklone]

Low magic changes?

I know some low magic campaigns with much low magic flair... and core rules. It's just a matter of how you sell the high magical stuff to the players. No "My wizard casts Gate!" but a long search for the instruction manual of a stargate similar device...

 

[kengar]

...The first is that for some reason, running a DnD3E low-magic game is apparently hard to do. This seems ridiculous to me. I mean, we've all read LotR, right? How many of them were spellcasters? In the tales of King Arthur, how many there? Why the hell is it that now, in D&D, we can't play a decent game without having a magic item in every "slot" like some kind of magic superhero decked out with every magic item possible? It just seems wrong to me. I would dare even say that, although that may be the way the game is designed, it seems to have gotten "broken" as the kids say, over time, so that now, with each edition that comes out, all these things have become a given. You CANNOT play the game to high character levels and succeed in adventures without having many powerful spells and magic items. Why is that? To me, that's a failing of the system...

Hm, you know, the more I think about it, the more I think that D&D just ain't the right game for the kind of campaign I want to run. That kinda blows. I look over at my shelf of 3E books and feel a little resentful, but hey, no one made me go out and buy them. I want to be able to use them, cause everyone is familiar with the rules to a degree.

Remember, d20 <> D&D. There are lower magic d20 games out there (ie CoC, d20 Modern, etc.). The thing is, D&D is supposed to be a game of really fantastic magics and powerful heroes. That's its "tone"/"feel". I would point out that what D&D re-creates really isn't supposed to be Tolkien' Middle Earth or Camelot, but a game derived from those fantasy roots. Pendragon or Decipher's LOTR RPG are probably better systems for those specific settings, but that really isn't your point, is it?

If you like the basic d20 mechanic, I would recommend looking at some of the other d20 games out there and seeing about using or adapting one of them. I've heard some people talk about d20 Modern with a medieval setting, as well as CoC set in the Dark Ages, etc.

I personally am a big fan of The Warhammer RPG, but the mechanics -while usable- are a bit dated. It's a much lower magic, grittier setting than typical D&D. Also, I like CoC a lot (both the BRP & d20 versions). I have learned IME that "tweaking" D&D usually causes problems down the road. For me, I've decided to just play D&D "from the books" or play a different game.

On a side note: I have found there a few things you can do to tone down the magic in D&D without actually having to change the rules or make a lot of house rules. Here are a few I'm using in my current campaign:

1. Core books only. No splat books, etc. This cuts down on some of the wacky feats & spells & items a bit.
2. Limiting Magic Item availability. There are almost no mages or priests willing to just make or sell magic items for GP. The amount of magic items the party comes across is still on par with typical power levels, but they aren't just buying & selling them in the market or getting custom items made every time they're in town.
3. High level NPC spellcasters are busy people. They are court wizards and high priestesses. They aren't just going to drop what they are doing to cast spells for a PC because he jingles some gold. They may make the party perform a service for them instead of taking cash. Or even in addition to payment!
4. Materials for item creation. PCs can take the normal item creation feats, but just "throwing" gold at the materials requirement isn't necessarily good enough. They may have to go on a quest for the materials they need in order to make that wondrous item, etc.
   
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   Thus endeth the ramble

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Salutations,

Have you checked out the previews of FFG's Midnight?

It looks to be low magic- and it may contain a way for you to run the game the way you want.

SD

 

[KnowTheToe]

Multiclass the magic users works well. You can limit it anyway you want, they han have 1/2 of lvls as magic user, 1/3, or whatever, your choice. You must also get rid of most item creation feats.

If you severly limit magic items, I would add action dice. Action dice will give a PC a boost when they really need it and can have them do more daring acts. With lots of magic items, action dice would make the PCs lives too easy.

An action die can be a d4 or d6 that can be added to the d20 roll before the DM tells the player if they have been successful. A player wants to jump the 10' pit, but has a medium load, he can use an action die to help him (you could say it simulates adenaline). It can be used for saves and they can be a great creative motivation/awards for the players.

 

[Voadam]

How to tone down wizards:

Don't give wizards their 2 free spells a level make them find or buy them. You then control the availability of spells. For sorcerers and bards the spells known could be determined by the DM maybe even randomly. These options drive characters to other classes.

Enforce gp costs for writing spells into spell books.

How to tone down magic for everybody:

Increase costs of making magic items. Have fewer available for buying or as loot. Eliminate potion, and item shops.

Have witch hunts for anyone magical as a background campaign element. Do not have clerics tied to gods but to concepts and secret traditions, this way they can be hunted with good reasons.

 

[Razuur]

My 2 cents....

Youdon't need to change the rules.... Change the world the rules exist in. and I believe you are going for Magic Rare, Not low magic. i would think if campaign impact of removing the prevalence of magic.

Clerics are the rarest - most are priests (use aristocrat)

Wizards are the rarest - the subject of speculation and superstition.

Gone are the magic shops...

Gone are healing potions...

Gone are the prevalence for magical items. When one is found, make it an event, and make it powerful.

Replace +1 to +3 magic weapons with +1 to +3 Masterwork Weapons ( I think AEGs mercenaries did this... )

When a wizard walks into a room... people stare. People move out of the way. People whisper. Some fools will try to challenge, which the wizard should beat easily sending the fool away with a lesson, but the story will spread, and several adventures later come across a tavern where some commoners are gossiping about the wreath of destruction caused by a wizard a few towns away...

Commoners can't tell the difference between divine and arcane.

One or two wizards for every 500 square miles....

Have a cult following latch on the the wizard because of his "divine" or magical powers... What will they do? What lengths will they go with or without his approval.

Have there be legends of how legions of men were decimated by a few wizards...

Only the biggest cities will have a wizard or two. Most others won't.

Superstitions abound about them killing babies for their powers, or trading service for powers from demons...

Make groups of enemies run, or surrender simply because they ahve heard you have a wizard in your group. There is nothing like having a big bad... apologise and swear to meet again

Create a world where the Wizard doesn't NEED to cast all those spells....


You can tinker with the rules all you want, and you'll likely just irk players. You want to make a low/rare magick world, fiddle with the setting, and discuss it with your players. They will likley come on board, and likely love it as they are both admired and feared, as they are requested as counselors to Kings, as they are the subjects of armies of Inquisition.

Razuur.