how do new scores affect hp, after polymorphing?

[Thanee]

Well, as long as Polymorph doesn't change anything written under Alter Self, those rules are still in effect, and this includes the no change to hit points!

It might be a clarification with Alter Self, but it's surely also a rule to be inherited by the higher versions of the spell, which is certainly also the main reason, why it is written there.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Li Shenron]

Well, as long as Polymorph doesn't change anything written under Alter Self, those rules are still in effect, and this includes the no change to hit points!

It might be a clarification with Alter Self, but it's surely also a rule to be inherited by the higher versions of the spell, which is certainly also the main reason, why it is written there.

Bye
Thanee

But it's not that obvious, and that's why so many people have been discussing this before. And after all, Polymorph DOES change your Hp at least because it heals you like a night's rest, so it's not 100% true anymore that it leaves your hp untouched, at least not your CURRENT hp. Mind, I am not trying to use this as an argument, ok? It's just to say that the spells description could have been more clear.

 

[Thanee]

What's unclear there?

Alter Self: You keep your hit points.
Polymorph: As Alter Self.

What in the spell description says, that this part is not inherited?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Li Shenron]

What's unclear there?

Alter Self: You keep your hit points.
Polymorph: As Alter Self.

What in the spell description says, that this part is not inherited?

Bye
Thanee

Apart the following sentence:

This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature.

...there is nothing else which ties Polymorph with Alter Self. And yet immediately after, Polymorph lists down a lot of differences compared to Alter Self. I agree that if it does not explicitly overwrite something, then it should be used what Alter Self says.

For example, since it doesn't say that your BAB changes, it means that you must use the same as Alter Self = your BAB doesn't change.

I would like to know how it used to work in previous editions, just for curiosity.

 

[Li Shenron]

What's unclear there?

Alter Self: You keep your hit points.
Polymorph: As Alter Self.

What in the spell description says, that this part is not inherited?

Bye
Thanee

What does actually "you keep your Hp" means? Current or maximum?

 

[Thanee]

Maximum of course.

And in 3.0 it worked exactly like that what I write, too. It did say so specifically (like it does now in Alter Self), but there it wasn't a higher version of Alter Self, as that one worked totally different.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Nail]

Maximum of course.

And in 3.0 it worked exactly like that what I write, too. It did say so specifically (like it does now in Alter Self), but there it wasn't a higher version of Alter Self, as that one worked totally different.

Bye
Thanee

The problem came up last week on these Boards. I think I remember seeing the thread still in play on thursday.

Although the text of Polymorph says your Con changes, the text does not say your hp change; a restriction the Alter Self spell specifically mentions.

However, if you rule that hp do not change, even though your Con changes, then you might have trouble with ability damage to the polymorphed creature. I.e., if that creature takes Con damage, how would that work? Would the creature also lose hp? How many?

Also: How would a magic item that increases Con play with this? If a druid normally has a 14 Con, then wildshapes into a creature with an 18 Con, then puts on a Belt of Bear's Endurance (+4 Con), what is the druid's Con? What is the druid's hp?

 

[FrankTrollman]

Finally a clarification. Was it a post on the WotC boards or email, FrankT?

Both.

Skip Williams says that Polymorph's changing of the Con Modifier is itself sufficient to change hit points unless the change in Constitution came with a rider that said that change didn't itself change hit points. Since Polymorph doesn't say that - the change in Constitution can end up with new hit points even though the spell does not change hit points inherently.

Andy Collins says that the word "base" on hit points is implied on Alter Self and that hit points not from base rolls can change all they want to whenever and however your Constitution changes.

Note that these answers are not the same, even though the results are identical for this spell.

In any case, I'm pretty sure that regardless of whether the Andy answer is right - the Skip answer certainly is. Hit points from Constitution change happen immediately after the Constitution changes - and if Alter Self prevented Hit Points from changing after making all the adjustments of the spell it would be a 10 minute/level damage immunity spell - and I'm totally certain that that is not how the rules work.

-Frank

 

[Thanee]

However, if you rule that hp do not change, even though your Con changes, then you might have trouble with ability damage to the polymorphed creature. I.e., if that creature takes Con damage, how would that work? Would the creature also lose hp? How many?

Also: How would a magic item that increases Con play with this? If a druid normally has a 14 Con, then wildshapes into a creature with an 18 Con, then puts on a Belt of Bear's Endurance (+4 Con), what is the druid's Con? What is the druid's hp?

What's the problem there? Any Con changes that do not result from Polymorph do change hit points accordingly (+4 Con = +2x level hit points).

Bye
Thanee

 

[anon]

Trollman,

Do you have a link for either of these two statements (Andy or Skip)?

Not meant as a challenge to your statement, but I would like to source them to avoid other disagreements later.